Kevin Pietersens England career over.

RupertsFlan · Feb 4, 2014

GOD HELP US ALL.

The end of one of the great talents. Flawed genius - yes.

But listening to that assine interview Giles gave about working harder - that was his idea about taking over the England job on all fronts.

Is that bell end suggesting that under Flower England didnt work hard and that was the problem

??

The problem with english sport in a nutshell. Genius with personal defects and challenges ousted but a simple run of the mill yes man who thinks about discipline and hard work.

It's an entertainment business you ****ing retards!!!!!!!!!!!!|

spring hall convert · Feb 4, 2014

SIMMO SAYS said:
May I just say ---- he isn't English, as are most of the better 'ENGLAND' players for the last twenty five years--------------get over it.

The highest international run scorer in the history of English cricket. You know what, that's English enough for me, regardless of where he was born.

joeinbrighton · Feb 4, 2014

RupertsFlan said:
The problem with english sport in a nutshell. Genius with personal defects and challenges ousted but a simple run of the mill yes man who thinks about discipline and hard work.

Working hard was important for Ashley Giles to get to the top of the game because he didn't have the natural talent. What needs to be realised is that everyone is an individual and naturally gifted players tend to have work less to produce the goods because the talent is already there but just needs to be applied appropriately. The problem we have is we try and get everyone to be the same and all that does is suppresses the talent in the naturally gifted players and sometimes make them fall out of love with the sport they play.

vulture · Feb 4, 2014

If England start getting worse the crowds will give cook terrible stick. Why they didn't pay KP off then let him retire I never know.

SIMMO SAYS · Feb 4, 2014

spring hall convert said:
The highest international run scorer in the history of English cricket. You know what, that's English enough for me, regardless of where he was born.

You don't really believe that tho -----he's SOUTH AFRICAN and has just used us as a stepping stone---bit like Gus :wink:

joeinbrighton · Feb 4, 2014

SIMMO SAYS said:
You don't really believe that tho -----he's SOUTH AFRICAN and has just used us as a stepping stone---bit like Gus

Do you regard Greg Rusedski as Canadian despite him having stayed in Britain ever since he retired and having married an English woman? I think Pietersen regards himself as English because he is unhappy at how he was treated in the country of his birth during his formative professional cricket playing years. Don't think you will see him returning to South Africa to live upon his retirement from the game.

brakespear · Feb 4, 2014

joeinbrighton said:
Neither were Geoffrey Boycott, Shane Warne or Brian Lara. Their countries wouldn't have functioned as well without them though.

They kept their performances up to the end of their careers - Pietersen has failed to perform consistently for a long while now. A great player potentially, but his failure to realise that potential (partly through some terrible decision making) has cost him his England place. Can't say I'm terribly upset tbh.

joeinbrighton · Feb 4, 2014

brakespear said:
They kept their performances up to the end of their careers - Pietersen has failed to perform consistently for a long while now.

Since when has one series been 'a long while'? He was instrumental in England winning the Ashes series in England, scoring a century in one of the tests, and even more so in England winning in India the previous winter, an achievement almost as good as winning in Australia.

spring hall convert · Feb 4, 2014

brakespear said:
They kept their performances up to the end of their careers - Pietersen has failed to perform consistently for a long while now. A great player potentially, but his failure to realise that potential (partly through some terrible decision making) has cost him his England place. Can't say I'm terribly upset tbh.

Across the 10 Ashes Tests he scored more runs at a better average than the other England batsman bar Ian Bell. He made a match winning 186 against India last winter and played one of the greatest knocks I've ever seen against SA at Headingly the previous summer against a bowling attack that made the other England batsman look very poor. There is no way in the world this was a cricketing decision. To say it was you are either highlighting your own bias or lack of knowledge.

SIMMO SAYS · Feb 4, 2014

joeinbrighton said:
Do you regard Greg Rusedski as Canadian despite him having stayed in Britain ever since he retired and having married an English woman? I think Pietersen regards himself as English because he is unhappy at how he was treated in the country of his birth during his formative professional cricket playing years. Don't think you will see him returning to South Africa to live upon his retirement from the game.

Greg is Canadian--Kevin is South African regardless of the stuff that was going on.
If I moved to Canada and lived there for the rest of my life I would still be ENGLISH.
My son married a lovely Chinese girl but he and my grandson aren't CHINESE.

brakespear · Feb 4, 2014

joeinbrighton said:
Since when has one series been 'a long while'? He was instrumental in England winning the Ashes series in England, scoring a century in one of the tests, and even more so in England winning in India the previous winter, an achievement almost as good as winning in Australia.

Looking back at the statistics maybe I have undersold him a little so I withdraw some of the harshness of my post

But he has seemed to me to be a player who either doesn't know how to fix it when something is wrong with his batting or someone who doesn't want to believe there is anything wrong.I also don't think I've seen such poor shot selection since David Gower was in his prime

joeinbrighton · Feb 4, 2014

brakespear said:
I also don't think I've seen such poor shot selection since David Gower was in his prime

Pietersen and Gower are both swashbuckling batsmen who are not going to die wondering. You are not going to get them to play a Geoffrey Boycott/Mike Atherton style 8 hour attritional innings because that's not their style and it would bore their brains out after a while if all they could do was block. You have to accept that these types of batsmen occasionally will play a rash shot when they can't get the ball off the square because in the other column, they can also produce match-winning innings of the type that mere mortals can only dream. That's where England miss having an opener in the mould of Trescothick who keeps the score moving early on, meaning numbers 3, 4 and 5 don't have to force the pace when they come out to bat.

knocky1 · Feb 4, 2014

SIMMO SAYS said:
Greg is Canadian--Kevin is South African regardless of the stuff that was going on.
If I moved to Canada and lived there for the rest of my life I would still be ENGLISH.
My son married a lovely Chinese girl but he and my grandson aren't CHINESE.

Surely by your own rules your grandson is half Chinese.

SIMMO SAYS · Feb 4, 2014

knocky1 said:
Surely by your own rules your grandson is half Chinese.

No--he was born in England so he is English.
Greg n Kevin were not born here so I rest my point.
Zola Budd wasn't English either.

That's my rules whether you like them or not :thumbsup:

Gwylan · Feb 4, 2014

spring hall convert said:
Fell out with cricketing authorities in SA as they wouldn't pick him (I think KP was proved right here.)

He was dropped as a teenager, scarcely a devasting blow, it's normal practice with young players

Fell out with an unprofessional, hugely underperfoming Notts side, that he'd consistently performed in.

That's just nonsense. Notts won the County Championship the year after he left them (and won it again a few years later)

Didn't think Moores was up to the job (I think KP was proved right here)

Possibly, but his antics were highly disruptive

Can hardly be blamed for Flower's demise, I think any coach is going to expect the bullet after this

Really? Giles was in charge of a limited overs team that got thoroughly thrashed and he's favourite for the team director's job. The difference between Giles and Flower is that Giles hadn't said "It's KP or me". Flower's dismissal is a reprise of Moores' in that sense that both the coach and Pietersen end up losing out

The dropping was never really explained clearly, I suspect he thought Strauss wasn't good enough for his place. Even Strauss admits he was right

Eh? He was dropped because he'd sent texts to the South African team - Strauss and Flower thought it was a total betrayal and Pietersen accepted that he did wrong. It was pretty clear to all concerned. And Strauss has never said that Pietersen was right - he devoted a big part of his book to the incident and is clearly still hurt.

The ECB can't stand anyone who is prepared to speak out. At heart still a cosy, boys club. I'd understand if there was oodles of talent out there looking to replace him but no we've got Bopara and Morgan.

This is fair enough. I agree that things could have been handled better and it's a shame that someone of Pietersen's talent can't be used. I'd rather see him in the team but I can certainly understand why England have had enough.

Martlet · Feb 4, 2014

It's a heck of a debate. Boring for a blog but I can see both sides of this one. For years England have (rightly) gone down the "we need KP in the tent" route - and bent heaven and earth to look after him. Last time we did was after he had insulted our captain (Strauss) in text messages sent to the opposition.

He has now managed to play major parts in the departure of Peter Moores, Andrew Strauss and Andy Flower - all very successful captains and coaches. I strongly suspect he's tried to undermine Cook over the winter as well.

It's bloody sad, but he's never given his all for England - just shine every so often on the big stage. I'll bloody miss him, but think England will be better off without him.

knocky1 · Feb 4, 2014

Gwylan said:
Shame it's ended like this but you can understand why. He fell out with cricket authorities in SA, which is why he came to England; he fell out with Nottinghamshire (very badly) and Hampshire. He's seen off two England coaches and has been dropped once for disciplinary reasons:it's not a great record.

England were thrashed by, absolutely thrashed, by a weaker team ... but a weaker team that played as a team with a common purpose. KP is a great player, one of the best I've seen, but as a disruptive presence he's up there with Barnes and Boycott. It's sad it's ended like it has but if England are to go forward as a stronger team, it's probably best for all concerned

Barnes and Boycott in one sentence. What a partnership. Never once thought of them as a pair. It has a great ring to it. Classic pairing.

knocky1 · Feb 4, 2014

SIMMO SAYS said:
No--he was born in England so he is English.
Greg n Kevin were not born here so I rest my point.
Zola Budd wasn't English either.

That's my rules whether you like them or not

I won't take that away from you. But surely Zola Budd became English the second she tripped up Mary Decker?

spring hall convert · Feb 4, 2014

brakespear said:
I also don't think I've seen such poor shot selection since David Gower was in his prime

The other side of the coin being I don't think I've seen such a thrilling innings by any Englishman ever than his 149 against South Africa in 2012. When he walked down the track and deposited Dale Steyn (the number 1 ranked bowler in the world at the time) straight back over his head for six was just one of "those" moments. As I said previously even if he had declined slightly in a generally misfiring batting line up, this was not a cricketing decision.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/aug/04/kevin-pietersen-south-africa

He makes Steyn look like a net bowler from about 8:00 onwards.

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