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Please explain FFP in very simple terms



Crispy Ambulance

Well-known member
May 27, 2010
2,402
Burgess Hill
It seems everyone is very happy to spend other people's money (a bit like Pompey fans before they crashed and burned in spectacular fashion)

Why should a chairman who has invested over ONE HUNDRED MILLION of his own money into the club, have to keep dipping into his pocket to fund further losses (especially after we have been losing money for decades already)

There are 6 other directors. Should/could they contribute more financially to reduce the chairman's funding?
 




Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,834
Hookwood - Nr Horley
If we don't set the bar FFP will fail.

By us adhering to it gives the FA something to work from.

Have you asked yourself what would happen if we, (who, as you say, are apparently trying to adhere to the FFP boundaries), actually breach the FFP rules this season? ???

Will the calls for stiffer penalties etc still be called for?

My view on the whole FFP situation is that it is an attempt to impose artificial limits on club owners that is ultimately destined to fail.

Will more clubs fail if 'rich owners' withdraw their support for clubs because of external interference or if they are allowed to spend as much as they like on the clubs they own? - My opinion is that FFP if strictly enforced will cause far more financial problems for clubs than owners ploughing money into clubs ever has. For this reason I just don't believe the League will be able to carry out the sanctions proposed.
 


portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
17,588
portslade
Have you asked yourself what would happen if we, (who, as you say, are apparently trying to adhere to the FFP boundaries), actually breach the FFP rules this season? ???

Will the calls for stiffer penalties etc still be called for?

My view on the whole FFP situation is that it is an attempt to impose artificial limits on club owners that is ultimately destined to fail.


Will more clubs fail if 'rich owners' withdraw their support for clubs because of external interference or if they are allowed to spend as much as they like on the clubs they own? - My opinion is that FFP if strictly enforced will cause far more financial problems for clubs than owners ploughing money into clubs ever has. For this reason I just don't believe the League will be able to carry out the sanctions proposed.

Fully agree and will add that the FL will cave in at the 1st court appearance if it ever got that far
 


Rugrat

Well-known member
Mar 13, 2011
10,212
Seaford
If we don't set the bar FFP will fail.

By us adhering to it gives the FA something to work from.

Not sure we have any sort of influence whatsoever.

Basically it's back to the drawing board. FFP will fail, has failed, All the time the huge dosh is to be had in the top league whilst the majority fight for scraps it's just theory and idealistic nonsense
 




symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Have you asked yourself what would happen if we, (who, as you say, are apparently trying to adhere to the FFP boundaries), actually breach the FFP rules this season? ???

Will the calls for stiffer penalties etc still be called for?

My view on the whole FFP situation is that it is an attempt to impose artificial limits on club owners that is ultimately destined to fail.

Will more clubs fail if 'rich owners' withdraw their support for clubs because of external interference or if they are allowed to spend as much as they like on the clubs they own? - My opinion is that FFP if strictly enforced will cause far more financial problems for clubs than owners ploughing money into clubs ever has. For this reason I just don't believe the League will be able to carry out the sanctions proposed.

No

What is an artificial limit?

I don't care about rich owners who want to burn their money.

Even if we tried to compete with the teams, flouting FFP, in signing every available player they would still be outbid us.
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,007
Burgess Hill
Basically, it's a plan to keep the European elite ahead of the others. At our level it only matters if you don't go up from what I can tell...

Why would the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid agree then because aren't they both propped up by the banks?
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,007
Burgess Hill
Have you asked yourself what would happen if we, (who, as you say, are apparently trying to adhere to the FFP boundaries), actually breach the FFP rules this season? ???

Will the calls for stiffer penalties etc still be called for?

My view on the whole FFP situation is that it is an attempt to impose artificial limits on club owners that is ultimately destined to fail.

Will more clubs fail if 'rich owners' withdraw their support for clubs because of external interference or if they are allowed to spend as much as they like on the clubs they own? - My opinion is that FFP if strictly enforced will cause far more financial problems for clubs than owners ploughing money into clubs ever has. For this reason I just don't believe the League will be able to carry out the sanctions proposed.


Firstly, it is not an ideal system but it is a start. Also, how many of these rich owners are actually pumping money into the clubs and how many of them are just loaning the clubs the money with some creative accounting so that when they get bored they take the money out and the club folds?
 








Mr Smggles

Well-known member
May 11, 2009
2,654
Winchester
The OP said;

"I wonder if someone would be so good as to advise me, in words of less than two syllables,".............

Outgoings is three syllables.

It was a joke.

Ah I see. I believe the phrase is Whooooooooshhhhh.
 






Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,834
Hookwood - Nr Horley
Firstly, it is not an ideal system but it is a start. Also, how many of these rich owners are actually pumping money into the clubs and how many of them are just loaning the clubs the money with some creative accounting so that when they get bored they take the money out and the club folds?

You have a point regarding loans but there again how many clubs have actually folded for this reason ???

On the other hand FFP prevents money being genuinely pumped into clubs via equity purchase as well as deals like Forest's sponsorship deals being used to support the club's losses - money that is 'safe' in that it can't later be withdrawn.

All FFP does, if the sanctions are imposed, is make the financial stability of a club even worse should they ever get into trouble.

It's worth considering what sort of position we would be in as a club if FFP rules had come into force 5 years ago.
 


There are 6 other directors. Should/could they contribute more financially to reduce the chairman's funding?

Why should they contribute at all, that's not the role/function of a company director? A company is owned by its shareholders and it is they who have put in money by buying shares (either directly or by conversion of loans) in the first place.
 




mickybha

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2010
514
Forest have just signed ANOTHER striker, from Olympiakos this time. I would love to know how their hoarding of TEN first-team strikers fits in with FFP.


imo looks like forest are going for it big time and will be hit with ffp for sure .. result if they get to the prem ffp tax "peanuts" compared to the rewards ... and if they don't a transfer embargo .. what a joke when they have 10 strikers to off load
 


perseus

Broad Blue & White stripe
Jul 5, 2003
23,454
Sūþseaxna
To avoid another Portsmouth, overspending on wages and transfer fees.

Limited equity introduced instead of loans, and no pretend sponsorships. Investments in facilities allowed.

Means we cannot sign first team Premiership players because their wages are too high. Might be able to get youngsters and old timers but not peak age players. So any new players will have to come from the lower divisions, Premier youngsters that cannot make the grade or foreigners (EEC).

Trouble is to get the class players, we would have to pay the extra wages. So no big time charlies.

Best bet might be to identify players that used to be rated that are going through a bad spell. Rather than being over-rated in the first place. I can't think of any offhand. Tend to think other clubs might be interested in Will Buckley for this reason, and this is a player we should keep.
 


AZ Gull

@SeagullsAcademy Threads: @bhafcacademy
Oct 14, 2003
11,588
Chandler, AZ
You have a point regarding loans but there again how many clubs have actually folded for this reason ???

On the other hand FFP prevents money being genuinely pumped into clubs via equity purchase as well as deals like Forest's sponsorship deals being used to support the club's losses - money that is 'safe' in that it can't later be withdrawn.

All FFP does, if the sanctions are imposed, is make the financial stability of a club even worse should they ever get into trouble.

It's worth considering what sort of position we would be in as a club if FFP rules had come into force 5 years ago.


I'm trying to understand the points you are making here - and failing. I think you have an incorrect view of FFP, for these reasons:-

There is nothing under the FFP regulations that "prevents money being genuinely pumped into clubs via equity purchase". As long as money injected by an owner is used for purposes such as building or improving a stadium, or a new training ground, or an academy [sound familiar?], ie capital projects, then that expenditure is fine under FFP (which explicitly excludes investment in Youth Development and the purchase, sale and depreciation of fixed assets excluding players). Your comment about what position Albion would be in, if FFP had been in force 5 years ago, is meaningless, as it wouldn't have affected a single thing that the club has done in those 5 years.

However, trying to link Forest's sponsorship deal to this type of "good" capital expenditure is bizarre. It would seem that the sponsorship deal is clearly an attempt to artificially inflate Forest's revenue, with the sole purpose of allowing their expenses (ie player wages) to be commensurately higher than they would otherwise have been (if they had followed the rules). It is exactly this type of short-term, unsustainable, dash-for-the-Premier-League-riches spending that has caused issues for many clubs in recent seasons.

I applaud the Football League's efforts to attempt to rein in this profligacy and hopefully move towards greater self-sustaining finances amongst Championship clubs. We will all have to wait and see whether these regulations really do have teeth, and which clubs are taking the issue seriously.
 






CliveWalkerWingWizard

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2006
2,667
surrenden
It will be interesting to see what happens at the end of this season. If we stick to FFP and other teams fail to get punished TB may take more of a gamble next season. But is TB gambling that FFP will be imposed which may lead to a much weaker league next yr and put us in the driving seat ?
 


KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
19,692
Wolsingham, County Durham
It will be interesting to see what happens at the end of this season. If we stick to FFP and other teams fail to get punished TB may take more of a gamble next season. But is TB gambling that FFP will be imposed which may lead to a much weaker league next yr and put us in the driving seat ?

Why is trying to stick to the rules gambling?

TB has said before that he wants the club to be self-sufficient as far as possible and FFP coming in has made that wish timely. I do not believe that if FFP is not enforced, TB will suddenly throw yet more millions at the club, above what he is already doing.

And for the question from the O/P, FFP is an attempt to get clubs to live within their means, essentially.
 



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