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Man U v Sunderland - Gus on HIS way to Wembley



The Oldman

The Oldman

I like the Hat
NSC Patron
Jul 12, 2003
7,106
In the shadow of Seaford Head
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.
Archie Macauley dragged us from the pits of despair, after two successive relegations. Pulled off the biggest player signing coup in our history and won us the Championship.
Peter Taylor ( no.1 ) ignored the overtures of Brian Clough to join him and stayed to create the platform for the most successful period in our history. If he did nothing else, the signing of Peter Ward from Burton Albion should put him right up there. Steve Gritt, unquestionably achieving the greatest result in our history. Where would we be now had we dropped out the league? Would we still be here?
Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

Congrats on a thoughtful well written post. I think I agree with you.i
 




ozzygull

ozzygull

Well-known member
Oct 6, 2003
3,832
Reading
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.
Archie Macauley dragged us from the pits of despair, after two successive relegations. Pulled off the biggest player signing coup in our history and won us the Championship.
Peter Taylor ( no.1 ) ignored the overtures of Brian Clough to join him and stayed to create the platform for the most successful period in our history. If he did nothing else, the signing of Peter Ward from Burton Albion should put him right up there. Steve Gritt, unquestionably achieving the greatest result in our history. Where would we be now had we dropped out the league? Would we still be here?
Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

100% agree
 


Blue Valkyrie

Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.
Archie Macauley dragged us from the pits of despair, after two successive relegations. Pulled off the biggest player signing coup in our history and won us the Championship.
Peter Taylor ( no.1 ) ignored the overtures of Brian Clough to join him and stayed to create the platform for the most successful period in our history. If he did nothing else, the signing of Peter Ward from Burton Albion should put him right up there. Steve Gritt, unquestionably achieving the greatest result in our history. Where would we be now had we dropped out the league? Would we still be here?
Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

That is a fantastic assessment.
 


British Bulldog

British Bulldog

The great escape
Feb 6, 2006
10,893
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.
Archie Macauley dragged us from the pits of despair, after two successive relegations. Pulled off the biggest player signing coup in our history and won us the Championship.
Peter Taylor ( no.1 ) ignored the overtures of Brian Clough to join him and stayed to create the platform for the most successful period in our history. If he did nothing else, the signing of Peter Ward from Burton Albion should put him right up there. Steve Gritt, unquestionably achieving the greatest result in our history. Where would we be now had we dropped out the league? Would we still be here?
Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 


mejonaNO12 aka riskit

mejonaNO12 aka riskit

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2003
21,497
England
Not read most of the thread but I'm sure there is a lot of anger/annoyance that Gus has got there.

Personally I'm delighted for him. A lot of judgements have been made with very little/no understanding of the reasons for him wanting to leave.

On a sub point, Ki is a fantastic player.
 








R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,194
Just far enough away from LDC
What makes people good is also what can lead to their downfall. Dick Knight and Gus Poyet are two such people.

Gus is focussed, single minded, passionate and has 100% confidence in his ability. Each of those qualities has a negative side. In life, you just have to accept the good side and mitigate for the negatives. We did well by having Gus and whilst he may not be the messiah, he certainly can't be classed as a very naughty boy either.
 




Commander

Commander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 28, 2004
12,887
London
The Complete Badger said:
Gus is such a strange beast. Even now I find myself hating him and then loving him all in the same evening. I think it's just the combination of being a very good manager but an, at times, unsavoury man who perhaps liked the sound of his own voice on one or two more occasions than was really necessary.
Click to expand...

It's a strange feeling, isn't it? As a self confessed 'Gus lover', I whooped and jumped and cheered when Sunderland scored and then won the shootout, but when the camera panned to Gus my first reaction was "**** off Gus". I'm a confused young man.
 








Commander

Commander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 28, 2004
12,887
London
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.
Archie Macauley dragged us from the pits of despair, after two successive relegations. Pulled off the biggest player signing coup in our history and won us the Championship.
Peter Taylor ( no.1 ) ignored the overtures of Brian Clough to join him and stayed to create the platform for the most successful period in our history. If he did nothing else, the signing of Peter Ward from Burton Albion should put him right up there. Steve Gritt, unquestionably achieving the greatest result in our history. Where would we be now had we dropped out the league? Would we still be here?
Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

Sorry to be the first to disagree, but to compare Poyet with Mick Adams is ridiculous. Adams won the bottom division title with the biggest budget in the league and with all his old mates who'd already done it a couple of times before, an achievement that has been the pinnacle of his management career. He is a dinosaur lower league manager who got found out when he took over the second time.
 


R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,194
Just far enough away from LDC
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.
Archie Macauley dragged us from the pits of despair, after two successive relegations. Pulled off the biggest player signing coup in our history and won us the Championship.
Peter Taylor ( no.1 ) ignored the overtures of Brian Clough to join him and stayed to create the platform for the most successful period in our history. If he did nothing else, the signing of Peter Ward from Burton Albion should put him right up there. Steve Gritt, unquestionably achieving the greatest result in our history. Where would we be now had we dropped out the league? Would we still be here?
Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I can't agree with all of this. Where's Barry Lloyd on this? Promotion from old div 3 and play offs to old div 1 - with a low budget. If we are picking up on results only then he has to be in there.

The difference is that poyet was the perfect manager at the time. High profile, innovative and self confident.

Nobody fully knows why and how his departure came about. So we cannot make accurate summations. Egos are everywhere in football, not just in the dressing room or on the touchlines.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.

Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

It's so easy to rewrite history. The higher platform that you refer to after Slade was the relegation zone. Slade rescued us the season before but was sacked in October for being back where he started. Poyet took us up to 11th in 5 months so is experienced in relegation battles now.
He then went on to win the division with a record number of points, record number of weeks at the top spot (from September to May) and a record 8 wins out of 8 in March. That was all at Withdean before the Amex even opened. He also took us to the 4th & 5th rounds of the FA cup where we were used to going out in the 3rd round for many years.
We beat Premier League teams at the Amex with great football.

Very few managerial departures are dignified. Either managers are classed as greedy going to bigger clubs or they get sacked for not doing their job properly.

I don't mind people saying they don't like him but there are vast exaggerations of his character and abilities which is why I continue to try and post some balance into the debate. People will believe what they want to believe but it isn't always the whole truth. Nobody except the board and Poyet know the whole truth.

It's also worth noting that if we hadn't got to where we were last season, would we have had a chance to get Oscar in, after he'd got Tel Aviv into Europe? Somehow I doubt it.
 




Kalimantan Gull

Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,923
Central Borneo / the Lizard
HawkTheSeagull said:
Of course, and to be fair it has worked but at our expense. We could have easily been in that position tonight - but no. Of course his brigade will now be spamming NSC saying how great he is - can we make a specific Sunderland section for them ?
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Talking about an albion legend is spamming now is it? Does this mean discussion of zamora and Adams, for example, isn't allowed either?
 


Mental Lental

Mental Lental

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
2,273
Shiki-shi, Saitama
Simster said:
Nope, you're about six years out of date. TCB is invariably spot-on about footballing matters these days.
Click to expand...

I will concede that he is getting better. Spot on? Mmmmmmm. ???
 


OzMike

OzMike

Well-known member
Oct 2, 2006
12,931
Perth Australia
Mo Gosfield said:
History will judge whether Poyet rates as our greatest manager of all time.
There are parallels with Adams. One divisional title apiece. Consolidation at a higher level. Reputations tarnished following departure. Both, in my book, would rate behind Mullery. Two promotions and survival at the highest level and presiding over the most exciting period in BHA history. McGhee gained us promotion in the best possible ( money-spinning ) way and then kept us up against all the odds. No mean feat.
Slade had the most remarkable short-term achievement, getting us 16 pts from 6 matches, when we were dead and buried and ultimately providing a higher platform for Poyet to spring from. Billy Lane spent years trying to get out of Div 3 South, when only one team was promoted. He played attractive, free-scoring football and finally achieved the very first promotion for BHA. Jimmy Melia...a cup final against all the odds.
Archie Macauley dragged us from the pits of despair, after two successive relegations. Pulled off the biggest player signing coup in our history and won us the Championship.
Peter Taylor ( no.1 ) ignored the overtures of Brian Clough to join him and stayed to create the platform for the most successful period in our history. If he did nothing else, the signing of Peter Ward from Burton Albion should put him right up there. Steve Gritt, unquestionably achieving the greatest result in our history. Where would we be now had we dropped out the league? Would we still be here?
Its all relative. Each of these managers had different sets of circumstances to deal with. Adams, McGhee and Poyet came in when the club had stabilised a bit. Gritt was dealing with the most difficult period in our history.
It is too glib and simple to place Poyet at the top of this list. He had the two ' honeymoon ' seasons at the Amex, which left many with rose-tinted specs.
Ultimately, he wasn't able to walk away with any dignity. It was an ugly departure. He was the architect of his own downfall and he tarnished his own reputation at BHA. ( Its now being cleverly rebuilt at Sunderland via enormous media coverage ) He had the opportunity to create a massive pay-day for our club but very sadly put his own ambitions first. For the very reason that he failed to maintain focus when it mattered most, he loses a lot of credibility with me, when it comes to judging the best BHA managers of all time.
Click to expand...

Here, here, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Poyet put the seeds of doubt into players' heads with regard to head hunting them when he got an opportunity in the Premiership.
 


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