The EU- the definitive NSC referendum

Shropshire Seagull · Jan 9, 2014

The benefits and advantages, as they appear to me, for us remaining in the EU seem to dilute with every passing year.

Can someone list the obvious pros and cons to help us make an informed decision.

warsaw · Jan 9, 2014

Hastings gull said:
Yes, I know you don't want people to sit on the fence, but yes or no is really too simplistic. If you ask people whether they would like to be members of the EU just involving easier trade and travel, as it used to be, then you would get a very different answer, I am sure, compared to if you asked voters to endorse full membership involving doing what all sorts of European quangos want us to do, irrespective of our own parliament.

I took the wording of the referendum question from a BBC item, and is apparently the Tory preferred wording. Trouble is you can't sit on the fence in the real world you just don't turn up to vote.

jakarta · Jan 9, 2014

Surely people must realise that if we weren't in the EU then this country would be an economic basket case, just like Norway and Switzerland are.

Oh..........

Simster · Jan 9, 2014

jakarta said:
Surely people must realise that if we weren't in the EU then this country would be an economic basket case, just like Norway and Switzerland are.

Oh..........

It seems rather odd to compare our 60m nation with an oil rich nation of 4m or the world banking centre of 5m.

How is Turkey getting on?

Hastings gull · Jan 9, 2014

warsaw said:
I took the wording of the referendum question from a BBC item, and is apparently the Tory preferred wording. Trouble is you can't sit on the fence in the real world you just don't turn up to vote.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I fully appreciate what you are saying and inevitably we will be given the choice of yes or no, as you rightly state. I just think that this would be all wrong, as the issue is so complex. Also, I go over to Calais on booze cruises, and so if we were not members of the EU, we would presumably be back to one bottle of spirits, 2 wines and nothing else!! Just to put a mundane note in!

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 9, 2014

I'm surprised no one has rolled out the "we could be like Switzerland or Norway" line yet. Yeah, right, in your dreams.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 9, 2014

jakarta said:
Surely people must realise that if we weren't in the EU then this country would be an economic basket case, just like Norway and Switzerland are.

Oh..........

Doh, keep up Tubthumper.

Herr Tubthumper · Jan 9, 2014

jakarta said:
Surely people must realise that if we weren't in the EU then this country would be an economic basket case, just like Norway and Switzerland are.

Oh..........

Both are relatively rich countries with small populations. Both a very very different to the UK. As I said, in your dreams.

daveinprague · Jan 9, 2014

Apart from financial services, and contracting British troops out to fight American wars, what does Britain offer the world, if we are to leave the EU, and become an independent economy?

seagullsovergrimsby · Jan 9, 2014

Time to leave before it all goes to pot trying to prop up countries who shouldn't have been let in in the first place.

El Presidente · Jan 9, 2014

daveinprague said:
Apart from financial services, and contracting British troops out to fight American wars, what does Britain offer the world, if we are to leave the EU, and become an independent economy?

The best football league ((c) The Murdoch Press and Alan Green) in the world.

This country does however have a thriving arts, tourism, light industry, aviation, higher education and innovation sector.

daveinprague · Jan 9, 2014

Doesnt sound enough to keep the country viable....im sure we have something to offer, but cant put my finger on it presently.
If we leave the EU, who do we 'trade' with, and what would we 'trade'?

SULLY COULDNT SHOOT · Jan 9, 2014

Goldstone Rapper said:
Przepraszam! Dlaczego jesteś taki zły?

No wlasnie!!

SULLY COULDNT SHOOT · Jan 9, 2014

Simster said:
It seems rather odd to compare our 60m nation with an oil rich nation of 4m or the world banking centre of 5m.

How is Turkey getting on?

Good point..... those in Turkey who are not currently being brainwashed by nationalist/fundamentalist ideology are absolutely convinced of the needd for EU memebership. Not one businessman in Turkey would vote against it.

And before the idiots get on their horses, up to the recent political crisis, Turkey had one of the strongest economies in Europe.

cunning fergus · Jan 9, 2014

daveinprague said:
Doesnt sound enough to keep the country viable....im sure we have something to offer, but cant put my finger on it presently.
If we leave the EU, who do we 'trade' with, and what would we 'trade'?

So, for example, you envisage a world post UK withdrawal where the bosses of euro car makers would say no more trade with the UK?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/british-car-sales-jump-five-year-high-2013-1431282

Dont get me wrong, once PPI payments dry up so will car sales, but nevertherless.

supaseagull · Jan 9, 2014

seagullsovergrimsby said:
Time to leave before it all goes to pot trying to prop up countries who shouldn't have been let in in the first place.

I think that with most large scale investment in the UK coming from companies based in the EU, we may be the ones who have to go back to the EU with a begging bowl after a few years.

cunning fergus · Jan 9, 2014

El Presidente said:
The best football league ((c) The Murdoch Press and Alan Green) in the world.

This country does however have a thriving arts, tourism, light industry, aviation, higher education and innovation sector.

What you say about the football league is based on now, i.e. 2014............what do you think may happen once the UK is an integrated part of a European superstate. Do you think nothing will change to football?

Currently the Albion has the opportunity to access the richest football league in the world, once the UK is integrated do you think those riches will remain the preserve of English teams or will UEFA or the EU seek to move to a more integrated European football league?

On balance if such change was to happen do you think that change would be good or bad for the Albion?

Pure supposition of course but intuitively we know that the creation of a USE would mean there would be change................

daveinprague · Jan 9, 2014

Cunningfergus..no, im just wondering what it is that we offer the world, and to be honest, I cant think of too much that would keep the country economically viable in todays world...
Its not an antagonistic question, really... just curious as to how our economy would go....not sure that our car 'industry' would be enough.
Which car manufacturers in the UK are British owned? There cant be that many..
It scares me that anything that we manufacture, as an independent trading partner to anybody, could well be undercut, and better made elsewhere.

cunning fergus · Jan 9, 2014

supaseagull said:
I think that with most large scale investment in the UK coming from companies based in the EU, we may be the ones who have to go back to the EU with a begging bowl after a few years.

But you think wrong, the biggest investor in the UK is the US.

http://www.ukti.gov.uk/investintheuk/investintheukhome/item/553980.html

That's not to say they would be happy with a withdrawal from the EU, quite the contrary...................we have already been warned by the "land of the free".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/09/us-warns-uk-european-union

Best we do what the yanks tell us to do, no independent thought needed.

Westdene Seagull · Jan 9, 2014

daveinprague said:
Cunningfergus..no, im just wondering what it is that we offer the world, and to be honest, I cant think of too much that would keep the country economically viable in todays world...
Its not an antagonistic question, really... just curious as to how our economy would go....not sure that our car 'industry' would be enough.
Which car manufacturers in the UK are British owned? There cant be that many..

To name but a few :

High end technology such as satellite technology
Medicines
Food, drink and fags
Weapons
Fuel
Chemicals
Cars ( we export more than we import but I'll give you that the companies are foreign owned )

And the country we export most to ? ....... the good old US of A.

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