Should the South Stand be our Kop?

drew · Jan 2, 2014

I'm trying to work out if this a serious thread or not. From my vantage point in the WSU, the south is always empty and I can't hear anything coming from those that are there. If the North stand were full then that would make a difference but it never is. What makes people think that the South would ever be full? No logic whatsoever.

Hungry Joe · Jan 2, 2014

bn9 bha said:
Genuine question, is this really true as I have never heard this before? Where did you hear this?
I have a WSU season ticket and I didn't expect this to be a singing section, at the season ticket presentation I always understood the North would be the singing section.
I can't think of any ground I have visited where the upper tier of the main stand has a a singing section.

Pretty sure it was Martin Perry and co who floated this with the idea of 'The Loft'.

Hungry Joe · Jan 2, 2014

portlock seagull said:
It doesn't matter which point of the compass it is, re main problem is BHA are short of rowdy bleed blue and white types. And that's partly because we're an affluent country casuals part of the country. But mainly the former. I mean when we hit rock bottom, just how many fans stuck it out (3k?) and of these how many are gobby singing types (10%?). Scatter these through the ground and yes, that's what we have currently. A few pockets that easily get drowned out by a collective groan when someone makes a short pass or something. And that will still happen if, impossibly, you were somehow able to get every person who wants to sing for 90mins in the same stand and adjacent at that.

Logistically it's too late - only a good dose in the lower leagues causing a dip in STHs to create spare seats that enable a general move to eg north or south. But even then it would require some organisation and agreement from incumbent seat holders. The reason it doesn't work currently is because it would never work - our fans are too fickle, seater stadiums kill atmosphere for all the reasons stated elsewhere and footballs every spiralling costs mean average age is 41 not 18. And by then, most (most!) people have had enough life experience to realise, well, it's just a game and not worth attracting the attention of the authorities monitoring you with cameras and Rambo wannabe stewards.

It's a good subject for discussion on NSC but it just won't happen I'm afraid. Odds are absolutely stacked against us. It was impossible to get the seats next to me for 2 friends when they became available last season. Club utterly unable to organise transfer. Do you think they could do for several hundred or thousands?! You've not had many dealings with the Albion of you think so!!

Some valid observations there. I'm not naïve enough to think it would solve the problems of our demographic and modern football in the UK in general, but still think it would improve the atmosphere if handled properly. It is a big logistical challenge, and would require the buy-in of all our stakeholders, but I genuinely think it would be worth looking at. One thing Brighton fans aren't is defeatist, and we have a board who do listen. So in answer to drew's question, yes, this is a serious thread (for me anyway).

Notters · Jan 2, 2014

I didn't think there were more rows?

Hungry Joe · Jan 2, 2014

Notters said:
I didn't think there were more rows?

Between 4 (wings) and 6 or 7 (central) more I believe, according to the Stadium plan.

The Wookiee · Jan 2, 2014

Nothing to stop those in the west walking round and trying out the south, always plenty of empty seats

Guinness Boy · Jan 2, 2014

Hungry Joe said:
Pretty sure it was Martin Perry and co who floated this with the idea of 'The Loft'.

Nope. At my presentation it was stressed that the North would be for the 'more rowdy fan' and that the back few rows would be standing. I think 'the roost' was coined on here. It was clear when people were posting their new seats that the WSU was going to be full of a lot that went in the Goldstone North back in the day and a lot of groups from away games (A21 club, various friends and acquaintances of mine who've gone away for years) but because of the cost, view and height it wasn't a replacement for the North - merely likely to be noisier than, say, the East Lower.

drew · Jan 2, 2014

Hungry Joe said:
Some valid observations there. I'm not naïve enough to think it would solve the problems of our demographic and modern football in the UK in general, but still think it would improve the atmosphere if handled properly. It is a big logistical challenge, and would require the buy-in of all our stakeholders, but I genuinely think it would be worth looking at. One thing Brighton fans aren't is defeatist, and we have a board who do listen. So in answer to drew's question, yes, this is a serious thread (for me anyway).

So it's a serious thread but I still don't see any logic. Why not just concentrate on making the North Stand work better. I don't understand why you think it would be better in South. I think the club would not seriously consider this at all. The south stand is set up to allow segregation and as others have said it allows away fans to get to the coach park without having to go cross the path of most northstanders. There are of cause areas of integration between fans but the point is to make it manageable.

Commander · Jan 2, 2014

drew said:
So it's a serious thread but I still don't see any logic. Why not just concentrate on making the North Stand work better. I don't understand why you think it would be better in South. I think the club would not seriously consider this at all. The south stand is set up to allow segregation and as others have said it allows away fans to get to the coach park without having to go cross the path of most northstanders. There are of cause areas of integration between fans but the point is to make it manageable.

I think the thinking behind it is it would be starting again from scratch in a new stand so the right people could go in the right places, and there would be less of the type of fans in the North who don't want to stand or sing but want to sit in the North. The mistakes that have been made in the first few seasons could be rectified.

I don't buy the South Stand coach park argument, 99% of away fans that there could be the potential for problems with will not be travelling by coach.

My concern is that you'd just get all these 'I want to sit where the atmosphere is but I am not prepared to do anything to get involved in it' types relocating to the South, which is the main problem with the North in the first place. Perhaps the singers could pull off some kind of massive double bluff, relocating all the non singers to the South under the premise of a new 'atmosphere' stand, and then at the last minute staying in the North themselves.

Green Cross Code Man · Jan 2, 2014

Commander said:
I don't buy the South Stand coach park argument, 99% of away fans that there could be the potential for problems with will not be travelling by coach.

That may be true, however, there would be more potential for problems as the away fans would mingle far more with home as their strand would be right by our shop, Dicks bar etc and more importantly at the end of a game most of the fans would end up on the train bridge at once. That'd be fun with palace for instance. It's just not going to happen.

Hungry Joe · Jan 2, 2014

drew said:
So it's a serious thread but I still don't see any logic. Why not just concentrate on making the North Stand work better. I don't understand why you think it would be better in South. I think the club would not seriously consider this at all. The south stand is set up to allow segregation and as others have said it allows away fans to get to the coach park without having to go cross the path of most northstanders. There are of cause areas of integration between fans but the point is to make it manageable.

My logic is that what we have doesn't work; the South lends itself to being a more natural kop end, being deeper - concentrating our vocal element on the deepest sections right behind the goals in the South rather than being spread along the shallower North would be a vast improvement; the away fans could be housed in the East lower South end so still be relatively near both transport areas; the 'potential for more trouble' argument is vastly overstated, any more volatile games could still be easily managed by effective stewarding and policing; we need a fresh start.

British Bulldog · Jan 2, 2014

Easy 10 said:
Totally agree, especially as about 30% of the North Standers were no-shows today.

"Oooohhh...its raining...."

I must admit for the first time since the Amex opened I was guilty of that yesterday, I was going to go until about 1pm then I wimped out.

Bob! · Jan 2, 2014

Commander said:
I think so. But it would need to be made clear that it would be a singing stand, and that people who don't want to do this are not welcome!

Should be easily sorted, It will only need about half a block for those that do sing.
Plenty of room in the South for that many to move!

Questions · Jan 2, 2014

I cannot see it would make a scrap of difference. The north stand was generally accepted as the place to go for singing and a generally more raucous atmosphere but it has been pretty ordinary at most games. Yesterday they were piss poor with their support.

Puppet Master · Jan 2, 2014

Think people are overreacting a bit, yes we were poor yesterday and Bournemouth rubbed it in a bit but there was the rain/hangover/skint factor to account for. Plus the atmosphere wasn't that bad, everyone around me by the North video screen were singing pretty much all game, granted I gather we were pretty much the only ones bothering.

drew · Jan 2, 2014

Hungry Joe said:
My logic is that what we have doesn't work; the South lends itself to being a more natural kop end, being deeper - concentrating our vocal element on the deepest sections right behind the goals in the South rather than being spread along the shallower North would be a vast improvement; the away fans could be housed in the East lower South end so still be relatively near both transport areas; the 'potential for more trouble' argument is vastly overstated, any more volatile games could still be easily managed by effective stewarding and policing; we need a fresh start.

When you say deeper, exactly how much deeper is the South stand to the North. I've heard mention of two rows. If that is the case, what on earth makes you think that two rows will make a difference. If you are talking about gradient, I thought they had both the same level of elevation?

Brighton Breezy · Jan 2, 2014

Would love a better atmosphere at The Amex but short of the club having unallocated seating in a certain area it is pretty unlikely.

As soon as you designate an area as a singing section you also run the risk of having people move there who want the atmosphere but don't actually contribute to it which dilutes the impact.

Am pretty sure Crystal Palace work with the Holmesdale Fanatics to make sure everyone in that corner is, not approved as such, but intent on adding to the atmosphere.

Hungry Joe · Jan 2, 2014

drew said:
When you say deeper, exactly how much deeper is the South stand to the North. I've heard mention of two rows. If that is the case, what on earth makes you think that two rows will make a difference. If you are talking about gradient, I thought they had both the same level of elevation?

Please see earlier post, 6 or 7 rows at its deepest, certainly deeper enough to look and sound more impressive when full (sitting in WSL gives me a good view of both ends to compare).

Hungry Joe · Jan 2, 2014

Puppet Master said:
Think people are overreacting a bit, yes we were poor yesterday and Bournemouth rubbed it in a bit but there was the rain/hangover/skint factor to account for. Plus the atmosphere wasn't that bad, everyone around me by the North video screen were singing pretty much all game, granted I gather we were pretty much the only ones bothering.

My feelings on this are based on our whole time at our new home, not just recent games, albeit things have gotten worse lately.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Jan 2, 2014

I think we need an x-factor style competition, people have to audition to be in the North Stand, non singers get 4 NOs

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