Colin Kazim-Richards to face trial over homophobic gesture

Nitram · Apr 9, 2014

That's one way of looking at it I would say its a hammer to crack a nut, as to those who were offended, really? More like they were making a political statement. As for the police and CPS, easy prosecution to make them look like they are taking homophobia seriously, again a political act.

Nitram · Apr 9, 2014

Acker79 said:
Given it was reported to the police, the police investigate and the CPS prosecuted and a jury of peers found him guilty, it would appear that yes, it is a homophobic gesture that has caused offence.

As for dishing it out and not taking it, I might often agree with that sentiment when it comes to football crowds, but jeering someone when they have miscontrolled a football doesn't give that person carte blanche to use any homophobic (or racist or any hate speech) abuse on the basis of "if you can't take it, don't dish it out".

It's a disservice to all people to presume that because you don't find it offensive or even understand why others do, that they're not allowed to, or if they do it somehow undermines other people's pain. I imagine you could find plenty of gay people who thought it was simply a stupid gesture from some immature footballer, but I also suspect you could find gay people who were offended, (maybe because they find any sort of slight homophobia to be a reminder of more severe homophobic experiences they have had that perhaps started as minor insults and quickly escalated, or maybe they view accepting "minor" homophobia blurs the lines and makes others think "what I said isn't much worse than that guy..." so take a strong stance). People are different, and have different lines of what is acceptable.

Just because you're fine with it, doesn't mean no one else has a right to be offended, or that authorities are ticking boxes.

I agree with most of what you say, if people were genuinely offended, fair enough, was this incident enough to warrant that, doubt it, as I have said this is more about politics than anyone being individually offended. That is my concern. I would be the first to support any action against real homophobia.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 9, 2014

Hillian1 said:
Liz.

Liz was nothing to do with this case.

portlock seagull · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
That's one way of looking at it I would say its a hammer to crack a nut, as to those who were offended, really? More like they were making a political statement. As for the police and CPS, easy prosecution to make them look like they are taking homophobia seriously, again a political act.

What aren't you understanding - he was bending over in sight of thousands and TV cameras insinuating some if not many members of the crowd 'take it up the arse' so's to speak. Of all the grounds he visits, why do this at the Amex? Coincidence? Hmmm, don't think so. Ow, then there's the small matter of it being deemed homophobic. Which is against the law. You know the one that we all have to abide by in order to get along.

A small hammer and a small nut but deservedly cracked would be a better analogy. Majority of people assess the risk of getting caught when it comes to law breaking. So this will help reinforce the view our society, on which the law is based, doesn't tolerate homophobia. Just as it now allows gay marriages. CKR won't be the last idiot to be prosecuted in football for this offence, though he might now be the last footballer given the high profile he has.

Saltydog · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
Really are people so offended by this they see it as a homophobic act? The insult was so bad it needed to be taken to court? The crowd can dish out abuse but can't take it back? It's a disservice to people who are effected by real acts of homophobia. Would a gay person be really offended by this gesture or would they just think the guy was a prat. Just so it's clear I'm fully supportive of acting on acts of homophobia involving hate and menace, this is totally different and a showcase for the authorities to tick a box and loads on here to get on their high horses.

So if as you earlier suggested there had been just one or two (or a few) individuals who are gay were in the crowd and these individuals did not join in to "dish it out" does this impact on your argument?

I too see parallelism with other forms of discrimination whether by colour, creed, age, etc and so on and come from an era where this was all too common place.

I do not think we will ever live in a truly tolerant society which implies various forms of discrimination will continue, but to put yourself in the public eye, on show and potentially in a position where you can be considered a role model for others, an individual needs to "rise above" childish retaliation if that is what it was.

As for whether it was the correct course of action to take the case to court - where do you draw a line? Was the act outside of the law? If so it was a crime and should be treated as one just like other discriminations. Maybe a "warning" or what ever they call them these days would have been appropriate - but with so many onlookers I guess a point was needing to be made!

portlock seagull · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
I agree with most of what you say, if people were genuinely offended, fair enough, was this incident enough to warrant that, doubt it, as I have said this is more about politics than anyone being individually offended. That is my concern. I would be the first to support any action against real homophobia.

But you don't appear to with comments like 'real homophobia' and you betray a degree of prejudice with others like 'more about politics'. I'd leave this argument to the grown ups if I were you such as the judge and jury that's apparently found him guilty this afternoon.

PILTDOWN MAN · Apr 9, 2014

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/11135991.Guilty__Former_Albion_player_convicted_of_making_homophobic_gesture_at_Amex_crowd/?ref=var_0

Wonder if the editor was having a little joke with the picture caption

Nitram · Apr 9, 2014

portlock seagull said:
What aren't you understanding - he was bending over in sight of thousands and TV cameras insinuating some if not many members of the crowd 'take it up the arse' so's to speak. Of all the grounds he visits, why do this at the Amex? Coincidence? Hmmm, don't think so. Ow, then there's the small matter of it being deemed homophobic. Which is against the law. You know the one that we all have to abide by in order to get along.

A small hammer and a small nut but deservedly cracked would be a better analogy. Majority of people assess the risk of getting caught when it comes to law breaking. So this will help reinforce the view our society, on which the law is based, doesn't tolerate homophobia. Just as it now allows gay marriages. CKR won't be the last idiot to be prosecuted in football for this offence, though he might now be the last footballer given the high profile he has.

The bloke gets a load of abuse, and gives an ill judged reaction which supposedly loads of people react to, not out of trying to get the bloke in trouble, oh no- but because they have seen an equalities issue. Must have been a Human Resources day out. I hope the fans disturbed by this have been offered counselling.

Nitram · Apr 9, 2014

portlock seagull said:
But you don't appear to with comments like 'real homophobia' and you betray a degree of prejudice with others like 'more about politics'. I'd leave this argument to the grown ups if I were you such as the judge and jury that's apparently found him guilty this afternoon.

Really they have a judge and jury at a magistrates court?

portlock seagull · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
Really they have a judge and jury at a magistrates court?

Not read the report - only the headline. Amend that to whoever was appointed by the law to make a ruling.

portlock seagull · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
The bloke gets a load of abuse, and gives an ill judged reaction which supposedly loads of people react to, not out of trying to get the bloke in trouble, oh no- but because they have seen an equalities issue. Must have been a Human Resources day out. I hope the fans disturbed by this have been offered counselling.

I'll judged is the only bit you're making sense about. You're blithering on like an eejet, re: the rest. Hush now, justice served. A minor crime but a crime nonetheless. Justice done. Move on.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
Really they have a judge and jury at a magistrates court?

It can be a district judge but in this case it was a bench of magistrates.

Nitram · Apr 9, 2014

Saltydog said:
So if as you earlier suggested there had been just one or two (or a few) individuals who are gay were in the crowd and these individuals did not join in to "dish it out" does this impact on your argument?

I think the action needs to be set into context. If it had been made outside of the Bulldog the intent and message would be a clear case of a hate crime and need prosecution. I think the situation at the Amex is much more complicated but I have stated my reasons before so won't repeat myself, for me it's was more of a public order issue.

Mackenzie · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
That's one way of looking at it I would say its a hammer to crack a nut, as to those who were offended, really? More like they were making a political statement. As for the police and CPS, easy prosecution to make them look like they are taking homophobia seriously, again a political act.

Exactly. What is the World coming to when you can't pretend to stick a dildo up your arse in front of 28000 people. Its political correctness gone mad.

Nitram · Apr 9, 2014

portlock seagull said:
I'll judged is the only bit you're making sense about. You're blithering on like an eejet, re: the rest. Hush now, justice served. A minor crime but a crime nonetheless. Justice done. Move on.

You always like this when someone says something you don't agree with? I haven't resorted to childish behaviour and would appreciate if you did not, put me on ignore if it effects your sensibilities.

portlock seagull · Apr 9, 2014

Nitram said:
You always like this when someone says something you don't agree with? I haven't resorted to childish behaviour and would appreciate if you did not, put me on ignore if it effects your sensibilities.

Just concerned you're coming across as a bit of a dinosaur. Guy has been found guilty of a crime that's finally being taken seriously and rightly so. More serious hate crimes usually start with milder ones so best nip in the bud. Which is why the law hasn't passed a harsher sentence.

On a different angle, it's just boring listening to gay jibes from other teams so if this makes them come up with something witty and original then great.

vegster · Apr 9, 2014

Good old NSC, semi permanent homophobic abuse home and away and finally someone takes action and it goes to court and a guilty verdict returned and all we can do is fight over the semantics, sigh.

dejavuatbtn · Apr 9, 2014

On the basis that the court made a decision on behalf of all the supporters present at the match, inasmuch as they were all offended by his gesture, how much money are we all to be awarded, and how do we go about putting in a claim?

Husty · Apr 9, 2014

Absolutely pathetic.

Man of Harveys · Apr 9, 2014

vegster said:
Good old NSC, semi permanent homophobic abuse home and away and finally someone takes action and it goes to court and a guilty verdict returned and all we can do is fight over the semantics, sigh.

It's only one person, who's rather flimsy arguments on this subject have been rapidly and rightly shredded to pieces. Hardly "NSC".

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Colin Kazim-Richards to face trial over homophobic gesture

Well-known member

Well-known member

Silly old bat

Why? Why us?

New member

Why? Why us?

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Why? Why us?

Why? Why us?

Silly old bat

Well-known member

Old Brightonian

Well-known member

Why? Why us?

Sanity Clause

Well-known member

Mooderator

Well-known member

Share this page