The New Bedroom Tax

sten_super · Mar 15, 2013

pasty said:
But why should they go into a 1 bedroom place?

It seems to me that it depends upon what we view as the purpose of social housing. If it's provided as a starting point for all families (who can then aspire to buy either that or a different home of their own subsequently) then there is clearly a massive underprovision, but under this assumption I can understand people staying in, or being given, a house of suitable size for their need in as many circumstances as possible. However, if it's viewed as the 'last resort', a safety net for those that are unable to provide (for whatever reason) their own housing, then under that provision for me there shouldn't be choice - social housing may not completely meet the desire of tenants but it will provide (likely relatively low-quality) housing stock for those that really need it, without the assurances or comforts that providing your own housing brings.

Westdene Seagull · Mar 15, 2013

sten_super said:
It seems to me that it depends upon what we view as the purpose of social housing. If it's provided as a starting point for all families (who can then aspire to buy either that or a different home of their own subsequently) then there is clearly a massive underprovision, but under this assumption I can understand people staying in, or being given, a house of suitable size for their need in as many circumstances as possible. However, if it's viewed as the 'last resort', a safety net for those that are unable to provide (for whatever reason) their own housing, then under that provision for me there shouldn't be choice - social housing may not completely meet the desire of tenants but it will provide (likely relatively low-quality) housing stock for those that really need it, without the assurances or comforts that providing your own housing brings.

IMHO it should be the later.

sten_super · Mar 15, 2013

Westdene Seagull said:
IMHO it should be the later.

I agree. In which case the rules need to be tightened up. The problem, however, is that a lack of suitable social housing stock makes the market for this housing completely illiquid, i.e. there isn't sufficient capacity for all 2 adult families living in 4 bedroom houses to be moved to be moved (easily) into appropriate accommodation. The reduction in housing benefit paid to those living in 'inappropriate' housing is completely the wrong way of going about the policy, given the lack of supply. The first policy needs to be a massive investment programme to re-build our stock of social housing across the country.

janee · Mar 15, 2013

This affects the disabled very badly and there are some horrible cases from where I work:
Man who is very ill - coughs at night until he vomits - wife has to sleep in the spare bedroom (must be a number of these)

Family whose small daughter recently died of cancer - her bedroom suddenly seen as "spare" so they have to move

Surrey Seagull · Mar 15, 2013

janee said:
This affects the disabled very badly and there are some horrible cases from where I work:
Man who is very ill - coughs at night until he vomits - wife has to sleep in the spare bedroom (must be a number of these)

Family whose small daughter recently died of cancer - her bedroom suddenly seen as "spare" so they have to move

Which all looks great on the Tories books but in real life is an absolute disaster. My neighbour has been on the housing list for years waiting for a smaller place to be become available but of course these places are just not there as housing is running to capacity!
We still do not know what our rent is going to be for the next year. We have 2 disabled people here with 1 approaching retirement age. We have a "spare" room which classes as a single child's bedroom as it's under 70 sq ft. Also received a letter from the council which is virtually identical to an earlier letter but still doesn't tell us what we will be paying.
It's as clear as mud really.

BensGrandad · Mar 15, 2013

Surrey Seagull said:
Which all looks great on the Tories books but in real life is an absolute disaster. My neighbour has been on the housing list for years waiting for a smaller place to be become available but of course these places are just not there as housing is running to capacity!
We still do not know what our rent is going to be for the next year. We have 2 disabled people here with 1 approaching retirement age. We have a "spare" room which classes as a single child's bedroom as it's under 70 sq ft. Also received a letter from the council which is virtually identical to an earlier letter but still doesn't tell us what we will be paying.
It's as clear as mud really.

Are you and partner of pension age if so it wont affect you.

Surrey Seagull · Mar 15, 2013

BensGrandad said:
Are you and partner of pension age if so it wont affect you.

Would be pension age this year if they hadn't moved that particular goalpost.

mwrpoole · Mar 15, 2013

Surrey Seagull said:
Which all looks great on the Tories books but in real life is an absolute disaster. My neighbour has been on the housing list for years waiting for a smaller place to be become available but of course these places are just not there as housing is running to capacity!
We still do not know what our rent is going to be for the next year. We have 2 disabled people here with 1 approaching retirement age. We have a "spare" room which classes as a single child's bedroom as it's under 70 sq ft. Also received a letter from the council which is virtually identical to an earlier letter but still doesn't tell us what we will be paying.
It's as clear as mud really.

It is worth pointing out that each Council has been given considerable funds to help out with many of the scenario's being quoted. Obviously each Council can do its own thing but i have been working with a lot recently regarding this discretionary pot they have been given and they all will be helping out tenants who have agreed to down size but are on a waiting list, likewise they will help the families with disabled children etc. If anyone is interested speak to your local council and ask for a 'discretionary housing payment'. Council's have to give the money back if they don't use it so they will be giving it out.

Surrey Seagull · Mar 15, 2013

mwrpoole said:
It is worth pointing out that each Council has been given considerable funds to help out with many of the scenario's being quoted. Obviously each Council can do its own thing but i have been working with a lot recently regarding this discretionary pot they have been given and they all will be helping out tenants who have agreed to down size but are on a waiting list, likewise they will help the families with disabled children etc. If anyone is interested speak to your local council and ask for a 'discretionary housing payment'. Council's have to give the money back if they don't use it so they will be giving it out.

This is very true and by what the letter says, it looks like disabled people will be exempt but we'll wait for the confirmation letter and go from there.

birthofanorange · Mar 16, 2013

Just seen this:
Council: no tenant to be evicted over bedroom tax 24dash.com

mwrpoole · Jan 13, 2014

It has been discovered that the DWP made a cock up with the regs for this and a loophole has been found. The regs will be amended ASAP but can't be made retrospective, so the loophole will remain until the regs are passed through parliament.

In summary, if you have been resident in the same property since 1st April 1996 or before AND have been receiving Housing Benefit with no breaks since 1st April 1996, then the bedroom tax doesn't apply to you. Your HB will be repaid to you back to 1st April 2013 and you shouldn't have to apply for this.

You might think that only a handful of claimants would be affected by this but the estimates are somewhere between 20k & 40k are affected, depending who you believe. If anyone is affected by this or knows anyone affected, they should contact their local council ASAP to get their benefit repaid.

Ernest · Jan 13, 2014

mwrpoole said:
It has been discovered that the DWP made a cock up with the regs for this and a loophole has been found. The regs will be amended ASAP but can't be made retrospective, so the loophole will remain until the regs are passed through parliament.

In summary, if you have been resident in the same property since 1st April 1996 or before AND have been receiving Housing Benefit with no breaks since 1st April 1996, then the bedroom tax doesn't apply to you. Your HB will be repaid to you back to 1st April 2013 and you shouldn't have to apply for this.

You might think that only a handful of claimants would be affected by this but the estimates are somewhere between 20k & 40k are affected, depending who you believe. If anyone is affected by this or knows anyone affected, they should contact their local council ASAP to get their benefit repaid.

Will they resurrect the people that killed themselves over this ?

mwrpoole · Jan 13, 2014

Ernest said:
Will they resurrect the people that killed themselves over this ?

There is one case where an elderly lady committed suicide and in her 'note' she blamed all the welfare cuts including the bedroom tax. I'm sure certain people will save that case for a rainy day!

Vegas Seagull · Jan 13, 2014

mwrpoole said:
It has been discovered that the DWP made a cock up with the regs for this and a loophole has been found. The regs will be amended ASAP but can't be made retrospective, so the loophole will remain until the regs are passed through parliament.

In summary, if you have been resident in the same property since 1st April 1996 or before AND have been receiving Housing Benefit with no breaks since 1st April 1996, then the bedroom tax doesn't apply to you. Your HB will be repaid to you back to 1st April 2013 and you shouldn't have to apply for this.

You might think that only a handful of claimants would be affected by this but the estimates are somewhere between 20k & 40k are affected, depending who you believe. If anyone is affected by this or knows anyone affected, they should contact their local council ASAP to get their benefit repaid.

Have all the people that drafted this, as well as those that signed it off at all levels, been sacked?

mwrpoole · Jan 13, 2014

Vegas Seagull said:
Have all the people that drafted this, as well as those that signed it off at all levels, been sacked?

I doubt it. But I am surprised given all the media attention about this policy back in March/April that Labour aren't calling for IDS to be strung up.

Jaguar_uk · Jan 13, 2014

I'm sure that it is perfectly reasonable for 1 person to occupy a 3 bed council house, can't see what the problem is :tosser:

Ernest · Jan 13, 2014

Jaguar_uk said:
I'm sure that it is perfectly reasonable for 1 person to occupy a 3 bed council house, can't see what the problem is

So where are they going to move to then ?

clapham_gull · Jan 13, 2014

Jaguar_uk said:
I'm sure that it is perfectly reasonable for 1 person to occupy a 3 bed council house, can't see what the problem is

Easy to say in principle (to gain attention) but very hard to resolve in practice.

You should apply to be a Tory MP.

Before I go all Guardian Reader on you, due to it's scarcity I'm not convinced that people on 6 figure salaries should be in social housing as an ex neighbour of mine apparently once was.

Freddie Goodwin. · Jan 13, 2014

My Son was lucky enough to be able to move from his fairly modern and well situated 2 b/r maisonette, in Brighton, just over 6 months ago.

It remains empty.

Greyrun · Sep 14, 2014

Talking to a friend who works for a sussex council and he said they have noticed a significant reduction in the number of teenagers being thrown out of the family home because parents don't want to pay the bedroom tax.Legislation works in mysterious ways.

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