North Korea video from official state website

daveinprague said:

I doubt if they have that many, and their delivery platforms have only managed as far as Japan so far havnt they..?

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I have no idea how far they can send their missiles, but once they have the technology I see no reason why they'd only have 1 or 2 missiles, so my mind wouldn't be eased by them have 2 or 3 targets more important than us.

plus our defences, along with most other 1st world nations in the west, are designed to defend against multiple incoming missiles...not a couple.....

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Is there any evidence of any of these defence missiles working? We're not talking about skuds here.

As for religious nuts, doing gods will?..... well, Gods 'chosen people' are surrounded by enemies and have nuclear weapons...would imagine its the geographic area where its most likely, if at all.

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Is Iran surrounded by enemies? I'd imagine the west would be high on their list of targets (after Israel, but Israel isn't that big).

Mustafa Kemal said:

In regards to my comment about their science, relatively speaking it is miles ahead of nations with similar wealth. North Korea is extremely dedicated to education, with a 99.9% literacy rate. The Ryugyong hotel and the May Day stadium are fantastic pieces of architecture, and the reason the construction of the hotel was halted was because of lack of money rather than any architectural ineptitude.

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Where have you got this figure from?

Mustafa Kemal said:

The US has imposed sanctions on North Korea since the 50's, and not a lot has changed since. They were lifted in '94 during their great famine but it didn't last long.

It appears that you take everything you read in the news as gospel , while failing to realise that much of what is reported on the secretive state is propaganda originating from Japan, South Korea & the US. The prisons there are in all probability horrific, but nobody really knows for sure, to compare them to concentration camps is extreme, as all the claims you have made are just assumptions based on the word of their enemies. You will occasionally see or read interviews with defectors, but suffice to say they are enemies of the state too.

If you read about their "Juche" ideology you will realise that North Korea is not an aggressive nation, it's the opposite. It only aspires to be self sufficient, both economically and militarily, but of course it reacts when it is antagonised.

The North Korean people themselves are supposedly very proud and patriotic to the point of being prepared to die for their nation. This is clearly a symptom of brainwashing and censorship, but if there was a democratic vote in North Korea it would almost undoubtedly be in favour of the current regime. For this reason, it's important to accept that the regime isn't going to go away, so it's best off trying to help the people there by lifting the sanctions and building a better relationship with the state. China has the right idea.

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wow you post some nonsense! are you Kim Jong-Un in disguise?

firstly no the American's have provided well over a billion dollars worth of aid since 1994, and without this thousands more North Koreans would have died. They die initially because their country is so badly run, spending mass amounts of money on a military that is not necessary, nuclear research, and the Ryugyong hotel that was a failed monstrosity in Pyongyang until construction restarted after two decades as a skeleton that illustrated the gross failings of the government. The hotel, and the massive Kim Jong-Il stadium, were pointless endeavours that drained the money of the nation to create an illusion of grandeur whilst a nation starved.

It appears i take everything as i read.... I am aware of the usage that foreign nations make of North Korea and the degree of exaggeration and stereotyping that can appear, however this is not the case with the fundamentals of North Korea. A country that needs to strictly control what their people and foreign tourists see tells you they have things to hide, you could have said the same about the Soviet Union in the 1920-30's that it was all propaganda, but it turned out to be true.

Your comments about the camps are utterly offensive.. 'based on the words of their enemies'... so the thousands of North Koreans who have managed to escape are obviously all lying and exaggerating the story because you believe it is western propaganda! Try telling them that with their physical and emotional scars! Read Escape from camp 14 and you perhaps it will open your eyes to the conditions in North Korea. But of course an account of a concentration camp inmate could not be more accurate than your knowledge that anything negative said about North Korea is propaganda, im sure the escapees will be enlightened by your understanding and glad to know their stories are all false and just their attempt to bring the glorious North Korea down. There is an abundance of evidence to support these cases, escaped prison wardens, border guards who get paid to help families escape, on top of the accounts from escapees who spent time in the camps and those who just lived in towns and cities but were aware of their existence.

That is quite interesting because did you know there is a book called the communist manifesto? everyone is self sufficient and equal in a society where everyone helps each other, however this did not make the states that claimed to adhere to the doctrine true reflections of the rhetoric. Actions speak louder than words and it was only two years ago that North Korea fired shells into South Korea entirely unprovoked and killing innocent South Korean Civilians. They make no attempt to reconcile with the South, the South actually try, and they refuse to let the families of the North Koreans visit those in the South freely. They are effectively kept in a prison in North Korea, imagine being told you couldn't leave the country, and they cannot even freely travel from city to city without a permit confirmed by the government. The regime is also extremely corrupt, it gives money to the few at the top and exploits the rest of the populace, and backhanders allow some to escape thankfully.

Im sorry did you conduct a secret ballot for the North Korean people? of course right now they would vote to keep the government but that is because of the high level of observation that penetrates their lives and keeps them worried about showing their true opinions, and if they saw the real world and prospects facing them if they joined the democratic west then they would vote for a democratic government reflecting the one in Seoul.

Starving the people into action is the only hope, you can only topple a state with nuclear capabilities from the inside and that is the path that must be taken. China has the right idea... yes well they are attempting to seperate themselves from North Korea and encourage rapprochement with the democratic Asian nations and the west.

You clearly have very little comprehension of international politics, your argument is contradictory to label that the myriad of evidence to expose North Korea's crimes as propaganda whilst claiming this must be true through circumstantial evidence and no true evidence or knowledge to support this claim. Your suggestion that to call them concentration camps is exaggerative is entirely misinformed as you have displayed a clear lack of knowledge on the topic of North Korea and the topic of human rights breaches.

Triggaaar said:

I have no idea how far they can send their missiles, but once they have the technology I see no reason why they'd only have 1 or 2 missiles, so my mind wouldn't be eased by them have 2 or 3 targets more important than us.

Is there any evidence of any of these defence missiles working? We're not talking about skuds here.

Is Iran surrounded by enemies? I'd imagine the west would be high on their list of targets (after Israel, but Israel isn't that big).

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Well, im fairly sure they test the things ;-)

Dont think Irans population are 'gods children'...

Is Iran surrounded by enemies... American backed government in Afghanistan, American ally Pakistan, American bases in Saudi arabia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, and an American fleet based in Bahrain....probably.. but as for nuclear attacks, like you and others say, its most unlikely anywhere....

Mustafa Kemal said:

I've read a lot about North Korea and it comes up a lot. Google "North Korea literacy rate"

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you claim to have read alot on this topic yet display clear ignorance on the subject. You dismiss testimonies, eye-witness accounts, and reports compiled by various governments as unreliable and you base an argument on google search. If you read any accounts from escapees you will discover a high rate of illiteracy, particularly amongst the large rural population.

So why start this nonsense thread, if you know that North Korea would never attack if retaliation was going to wipe them off the face of the earth .
And no..it isnt more likely than ever before . And certainly not New York.. Seoul might be a little more concerned .
Anyway...i think you can sleep easy .

daveinprague said:

Well, im fairly sure they test the things ;-)

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They tested the patriot missiles, but they didn't work either. I've no doubt they test things, but that doesn't mean we've developed missiles capable or preventing a nuke getting here, or into our atmosphere. I doubt we have.

Is Iran surrounded by enemies... American backed government in Afghanistan, American ally Pakistan, American bases in Saudi arabia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, and an American fleet based in Bahrain....probably.. but as for nuclear attacks, like you and others say, its most unlikely anywhere....

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I'm not sure it is that unlikely. It only takes one idiot to send one, and I think the main reason it hasn't happened yet is that the most idiotic leaders haven't had the capability yet.

Triggaaar said:

I have no idea how far they can send their missiles, but once they have the technology I see no reason why they'd only have 1 or 2 missiles, so my mind wouldn't be eased by them have 2 or 3 targets more important than us.

Is there any evidence of any of these defence missiles working? We're not talking about skuds here.

Is Iran surrounded by enemies? I'd imagine the west would be high on their list of targets (after Israel, but Israel isn't that big).

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The three main stages for nuking someone are that of building the bomb which is extremely difficult, hence why only a relatively few nations have such weapons. It takes years just to get the materials never mind putting it together. Next problem is delivery of said weapon. One of the benefits for the US and USSR of going into space was that they could use the rocket technology to give them intercontinental capability. For NK to deliver one to the UK they'd need to send it half way around the world, at the mo they can't get it past Japan. They need a step change in rocket technology to get it to the US. Finally once you get it to the target you need to detonate the weapon and that is the most difficult task of all.
They have a long long way to go yet. Also, most of the world would know they'd launch a rocket minutes after it took off.

Cant think of a reason why any developing country would wish total destruction on themselves by letting off some ordinance.. and would think by the time Korea had fired anything towards S.Korea, Japan, or even the USA, there would be nothing left of N.Korea shortly afterwards...ill carry on being more worried about being hit by a car when im shitfaced.

Triggaaar said:

They tested the patriot missiles, but they didn't work either. I've no doubt they test things, but that doesn't mean we've developed missiles capable or preventing a nuke getting here, or into our atmosphere. I doubt we have.

I'm not sure it is that unlikely. It only takes one idiot to send one, and I think the main reason it hasn't happened yet is that the most idiotic leaders haven't had the capability yet.

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in regards to the largest threat from a nuclear war, i read an interesting article that highlighted the Pakistan vs India conflicts being the potential site of an escalating conflicting leading to Nuclear launches. They are both nuclear powers with frequent border disputes that lead to violent action and the deaths of often hundreds on each occasion. The conflict is charged by religious differences and it is a dangerous combination when mixed with nuclear arms, particularly as their governments are not as diplomatically adept as Russia, China and the US for example. It makes food for thought whether or not you agree with it, and i found it quite interesting and not something i had previously considered.

and end this? That would be a tragedy...

Michael Palin at the India-Pakistan border ceremony - BBC - YouTube

Deportivo Seagull said:

The three main stages for nuking someone are that of building the bomb which is extremely difficult, hence why only a relatively few nations have such weapons. It takes years just to get the materials never mind putting it together. Next problem is delivery of said weapon. One of the benefits for the US and USSR of going into space was that they could use the rocket technology to give them intercontinental capability. For NK to deliver one to the UK they'd need to send it half way around the world, at the mo they can't get it past Japan. They need a step change in rocket technology to get it to the US. Finally once you get it to the target you need to detonate the weapon and that is the most difficult task of all.
They have a long long way to go yet.

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Interesting stuff. These things take years to develop, but unfortunately these countries have had years, and will have years more. Several countries have the capability, how hard can it be?

daveinprague said:

Cant think of a reason why any developing country would wish total destruction on themselves by letting off some ordinance

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No, there is no reason why a country would do it, but leaders don't need a referendum to lunch them. Can you think of a reason why Stalin would kill millions of people? There have been some horrible people in history quite capable of sending nuclear bombs.

ill carry on being more worried about being hit by a car when im shitfaced.

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Would that kill all of your relatives too?

daveinprague said:

and end this? That would be a tragedy...

Michael Palin at the India-Pakistan border ceremony - BBC - YouTube

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Blimey, what's that all about?

Just the ceremony for closing the border at the end of the day. Brilliant isnt it haha.... closing the door basically.

Mustafa Kemal, reading about a country will only get you so far. Watch and documentary about people who have visited and they'll instantaneously have a different opinion than you.

I wouldn't mind betting you think Hugo Chavez is doing a splendid job in Venezuela too?

Triggaaar said:

Interesting stuff. These things take years to develop, but unfortunately these countries have had years, and will have years more. Several countries have the capability, how hard can it be?

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Very, very difficult. It took the US better part of ten years to get an intercontinental capable missile to work, and that was throwing shed loads of resource at it. To get an idea of how much more work NK needs to do to distance wise. Tokyo is 800 miles from NK, whereas Blighty is some 5,379 miles, so our NK friends need to up there game by more than a factor of 6. The fact that only the US and Russia have weapons with this distance then you can see that it isn't child's play. India is the next closet with missiles of a range of around 4,000 miles, which would come up a tad short. I also suspect that they would have issues regards guidance systems. Added to this is, they would need to perform a load of test flights which they haven't done, as we would all know.

Regards the Patriot missiles, they weren't as successful as people thought however this was 22 years ago and it was a new concept. It needed testing in anger and the first gulf war was ideal. I believe that the anti-missile missiles are much more affective than the first Patriots.

Saying that, if they were my next door neighbour I'd be concerned, but being on the other side of the world a direct attack isn't going to be an issue.

Does the literacy rate come from the same office of information providing facts about his golfing prowess?

Deportivo Seagull said:

The fact that only the US and Russia have weapons with this distance then you can see that it isn't child's play. India is the next closet with missiles of a range of around 4,000 miles

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If it's that difficult, how did India manage it? India don't really need to be dropping missiles on far flung enemies, yet they have long range weapons.

Added to this is, they would need to perform a load of test flights which they haven't done, as we would all know.

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Yes we would, but I'm not sure how that helps.

Regards the Patriot missiles, they weren't as successful as people thought however this was 22 years ago and it was a new concept. It needed testing in anger and the first gulf war was ideal. I believe that the anti-missile missiles are much more affective than the first Patriots.

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Yes, but isn't shooting a scud relative child's play compared to a long range nuke? If you shot a nuclear missile, would it detonate properly, or would shooting it at any point before it was due to go off be good enough?

Saying that, if they were my next door neighbour I'd be concerned, but being on the other side of the world a direct attack isn't going to be an issue.

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Indeed, there's certainly nothing for us to fear from Korea in the short term.

'If it's that difficult, how did India manage it? India don't really need to be dropping missiles on far flung enemies, yet they have long range weapons.'

they have had issues with China and still have the odd border clash..

Triggaaar said:

If it's that difficult, how did India manage it? India don't really need to be dropping missiles on far flung enemies, yet they have long range weapons.

Yes we would, but I'm not sure how that helps.

Yes, but isn't shooting a scud relative child's play compared to a long range nuke? If you shot a nuclear missile, would it detonate properly, or would shooting it at any point before it was due to go off be good enough?

Indeed, there's certainly nothing for us to fear from Korea in the short term.

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India are wanting to be a major player in the space race and so most of the development comes of the back of that. It's a similar story for china though military might is important to them. Most other countries have short/medium range missiles with a range of 100 - 600 miles, a relatively easier task than a range of 4,000 miles!

My first degree is in engineering and I spent most of my working life working in the technology industry, and the proof of any design is the testing. The more complex the design, the more testing required. Testing is critical to any design because nothing ever, ever works first time, sometimes it takes multiple attempts before a design is close to doing anything. I suppose that's why engineering is interesting .... To some of us!