Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

pastafarian said:

you are not too far wrong
but they have to have done national service to keep the gun at home as required

how did the referendums pan out?

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Kumquat said:

Apparently the first one in 1989 was reasonably close, but the second was just after 9/11 and 77% voted against scrappin it.

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cunning fergus said:

The current UK position has been partly created by UK politicians agreeing to matters in Brussels and then deceiving the UK electorate about the implications for them. How often we're we told that the EU was not about a "united states of Europe" or that The Lisbon Treaty was just a "tiding up exercise".

The one single thing that politicians should do is represent the interests of their electorate, and on Europe they have singularly failed to do this. Instead they have acted in the interests of big business and they have acted in the interests of the free market Thatcherite capitalists.

Frankly this promise is more of the same, all sizzle and no sausage.

As for the UK being alone I disagree, both the French and Dutch electorates rejected the Lisbon Treaty and other electorates have rejected the EU pro choice in votes. Voters are unhappy with the EU in Spain and Greece and in Germany and Holland for completely different reasons.

They can see the Emperor's new clothes and like many in the UK they don't like the look of them either.

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SULLY COULDNT SHOOT said:

The naivety of the UK electorate is astounding.

The Tories have no intention of having a referendum because the majority of the party still feel they are better in than out... especially with the uncertain politcal climate. All of this is just bargaining chips to dilute UKip and try and get concessions from the EU.

There isnt a sane politcal party in this country that will try and leave the EU and they wont have a referendum because they know that the scandal-happy media have been phenomenal in telling the electorate why the EU is bad but totally silent on why it is good... of course good news is not news.

There is an insane one though... one that believes its own fantasies.

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Bevendean Hillbilly said:

What a fudge Dave. 2015 and we get a renegotiation refererendum and then perhaps an in out vote.

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pastafarian said:

i do not doubt what you are saying at all
we must all be very suspicious of what the electorate is promised

cameron is just about to make his speech now........

this could either be more political bollocks or a groundbreaking moment

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pastafarian said:

i love the Swiss,they are historically isolationist,(with very good reason)
most people wrongly think they are separate from the EU.but they have been fully signed up members of the free EU trade agreement for 20 years or so(i think,i may be a few years out)they have been fully capable of keeping their national identity,controlling and growing their own economy without compromising their own laws and regulations,while at the same time reaping all the rewards
from being members of a free trade club

if it works for them no doubt its very possible it could work for the UK

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pastafarian said:

i love the Swiss,they are historically isolationist,(with very good reason)
most people wrongly think they are separate from the EU.but they have been fully signed up members of the free EU trade agreement for 20 years or so(i think,i may be a few years out)they have been fully capable of keeping their national identity,controlling and growing their own economy without compromising their own laws and regulations,while at the same time reaping all the rewards
from being members of a free trade club

if it works for them no doubt its very possible it could work for the UK

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pastafarian said:

you are not too far wrong
but they have to have done national service to keep the gun at home as required

how did the referendums pan out?

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Waynflete said:

The Swiss have dozens of separate individual free trade agreements to make this work. It would take decades for the UK to negotiate similar arrangements.

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Kumquat said:

I think SCS has called this absolutely right. Cameron is in an awful position. He knows he can't commit to a referendum now because there's a risk that the people would vote to leave but he can't ignore UKIP
and his own right wing. He needs something that will sound firm on Europe without risking outright departure.

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Waynflete said:

The Swiss have dozens of separate individual free trade agreements to make this work. It would take decades for the UK to negotiate similar arrangements.

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granny weatherwax said:

Personally, we should be in, especially as it affects my job 100%

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Herr Tubthumper said:

It is also hilarious that once again Europe is dividing the Tory party.

As an aside Cameron has boxed himself into a well stupid position. If he calls the veto in the current EU negotiations then the vote breaks down to a simple majority which he will loose. If he does not use the veto he does not get what he wants. He is also in a awful position with his own country and the UK business leaders. He's not very savvy is he?

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Kumquat said:

That's true, although the rise of UKIP and the coalition balance has made it harder for him, he certainly looks very naive in how he's dealt with it.

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pastafarian said:

i love the Swiss,they are historically isolationist,(with very good reason)
most people wrongly think they are separate from the EU.but they have been fully signed up members of the free EU trade agreement for 20 years or so(i think,i may be a few years out)they have been fully capable of keeping their national identity,controlling and growing their own economy without compromising their own laws and regulations,while at the same time reaping all the rewards
from being members of a free trade club

if it works for them no doubt its very possible it could work for the UK

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Herr Tubthumper said:

True. And the reason a lot of these work is because of the Swiss' almost total nutrality. The UK does not have this. And why would anyone leave a trusted historic safe trading partner which has been built up over decades of trade for the bankrupt UK?

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