Official Running Thread

Badger · Oct 1, 2019

Ninja Elephant said:
I had to step it up a bit to get back above you in the table. I'm going to take a few weeks off the 5k pace train now - there'll be no PB attempts now until Christmas Day I don't think. Unless I get carried away and/or battle it out with [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION] which I think is on the cards?

How quickly do you reckon you could run a Half? Is your current 1:22 a long standing record just sitting there waiting to be beaten?

With the weather getting cooler I'm sure you can shave a few more seconds off your PB at Christmas.

My Half PB was from last October, just as I was going into my training for the marathon. It was a perfect day for it, the first chilly day we'd had which definitely worked in my favour. I felt amazing at the end though and even managed to get a full sprint on at the finish. So, I'm fairly confident I can beat it providing the conditions are right. Philadelphia does look like a fairly flat course too.

Greg Bobkin · Oct 1, 2019

Ninja Elephant said:
Despite my current workload, I made some time to read the whole thing - it makes me think of cycling articles I was reading before the final Lance judgement came out. It's like a story that everyone knows, but isn't public.

I think the saddest thing about the whole thing is that tars everyone with a brush. Even me - there are a few runners I work with who don't believe I'm not off my tits on some substance, given the recent PB streak over 5k. Obviously, they don't see the Strava uploads during the week - just the parkrun times on a saturday. But it's always there, even if it's jokey, there's some suspicion there.

Yeah – mediocrity is where it's at, Ninja :thumbsup:

You're right though, you can't escape some people looking for something that is not there. I'm really not sure about Farah, though. I want to believe that he knew nothing, but I can't see, having worked with the guy SO closely at a time where his performances improved at such a level, how he couldn't at least have had an inkling. The UKA stuff is pretty damning. It appears that they effectively turned a blind eye, made minimal effort to investigate and let the guy do what he was doing.

Much more to come with this story, I reckon...

Ninja Elephant · Oct 1, 2019

Badger said:
With the weather getting cooler I'm sure you can shave a few more seconds off your PB at Christmas.

My Half PB was from last October, just as I was going into my training for the marathon. It was a perfect day for it, the first chilly day we'd had which definitely worked in my favour. I felt amazing at the end though and even managed to get a full sprint on at the finish. So, I'm fairly confident I can beat it providing the conditions are right. Philadelphia does look like a fairly flat course too.

I may have to, if you're going to launch into a 5k! I look forward to hearing more about Philadelphia, not a bad setting for a Half Marathon. Presumably the course takes in the Rocky steps?!

Greg Bobkin said:
Yeah – mediocrity is where it's at, Ninja

You're right though, you can't escape some people looking for something that is not there. I'm really not sure about Farah, though. I want to believe that he knew nothing, but I can't see, having worked with the guy SO closely at a time where his performances improved at such a level, how he couldn't at least have had an inkling. The UKA stuff is pretty damning. It appears that they effectively turned a blind eye, made minimal effort to investigate and let the guy do what he was doing.

Much more to come with this story, I reckon...

I don't think Mo is anything like Lance Armstrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is tainted in some way. I think there's a certain amount of gaming the system in every sport, everyone is desperate to find an edge. I definitely think there's more to come - I hope that Mo isn't going to be dragged into it but I wouldn't be overly surprised, ultimately.

Richy_Seagull said:
Well this sounds......horrible!

Your instinct is absolutely correct. :lolol:

But it's the sort of session which injects real pace into your legs and is over relatively quicker. You'll be feeling it quite a bit, and you definitely need to have a good warm up and cool down. Others are in a better position than me to explain why running really fast fires up your legs in a way that distance running doesn't. There's a guy at the gym who likes to talk to me about these things - but the reality is, I run fast, but I can't necessarily hold a conversation about the mechanics of running.

Badger · Oct 1, 2019

Ninja Elephant said:
I may have to, if you're going to launch into a 5k! I look forward to hearing more about Philadelphia, not a bad setting for a Half Marathon. Presumably the course takes in the Rocky steps?!

If it's not an officially timed 5k it doesn't count, so no need to worry! They have just started a Parkrun in the north of the city which is an easy subway ride for me. I might have to give that a shot soon.

The course does start and finish right by the Rocky steps. Thankfully we go around them rather than up them!

knocky1 · Oct 2, 2019

My couch to Half Marathon in 17 days is slowly progressing. Last week have done 5m, 5m, 8m and today up to 10 miles. Felt good today so set off planning 9:30 to 9:00 miles. Big mistake. Accumulated tiredness, from sudden build up, and dehydration set in at mile 4. Saw it through at a slower 9:39 pace.

Consider myself ready to run in 10 days. Hopefully in sub 2 hours for a PW.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Oct 2, 2019

knocky1 said:
My couch to Half Marathon in 17 days is slowly progressing. Last week have done 5m, 5m, 8m and today up to 10 miles. Felt good today so set off planning 9:30 to 9:00 miles. Big mistake. Accumulated tiredness, from sudden build up, and dehydration set in at mile 4. Saw it through at a slower 9:39 pace.

Consider myself ready to run in 10 days. Hopefully in sub 2 hours for a PW.

This is quite painful to read, so it must have been a lot worse to do. In the words of Churchill I guess it a case of 'keep buggering on'.

timbha · Oct 2, 2019

Tonight I did my first park run (course) for over a year at Hove Park in the dark. I’ve been keeping fit but have fallen out of love with PR.

I felt good and thought I was upping the pace on each of the 3 circuits and even had a sort of sprint finish at the end. BUT my time was about 3 minutes slower than I do on the treadmill and previous park runs .Can I put this down to the dark?

Garry Nelson's teacher · Oct 2, 2019

timbha said:
Tonight I did my first park run (course) for over a year at Hove Park in the dark. I’ve been keeping fit but have fallen out of love with PR.

I felt good and thought I was upping the pace on each of the 3 circuits and even had a sort of sprint finish at the end. BUT my time was about 3 minutes slower than I do on the treadmill and previous park runs .Can I put this down to the dark?

I think that if your current training and times have been on the treadmill then that might at least partly explain the apparent discrepancy. A TM workout has got its place but it's really not like the real thing - no slopes, headwinds, corners, dog-walkers, uneven surfaces etc etc. As you say, running in the dark might also make you sub-consciously more cautious and add a few seconds to each kilometre. Plus that 2 stone you put on since your last parkrun probably hasn't helped. :smile:

Looking on the bright side, I used to be quite relieved to do a crap time after lay-off as the only way is up.

PS you are also a year older...……….these small margins all add up

timbha · Oct 2, 2019

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I think that if your current training and times have been on the treadmill then that might at least partly explain the apparent discrepancy. A TM workout has got its place but it's really not like the real thing - no slopes, headwinds, corners, dog-walkers, uneven surfaces etc etc. As you say, running in the dark might also make you sub-consciously more cautious and add a few seconds to each kilometre. Plus that 2 stone you put on since your last parkrun probably hasn't helped.
Looking on the bright side, I used to be quite relieved to do a crap time after lay-off as the only way is up.

PS you are also a year older...……….these small margins all add up

Not what I wanted to hear! That 2 stone is muscle and the additional year is more experience.

Thanks, so it’s less chocolate and more hills.

knocky1 · Oct 3, 2019

timbha said:
Not what I wanted to hear! That 2 stone is muscle and the additional year is more experience.

Thanks, so it’s less chocolate and more hills.

You’re only 10-15% down so running at a respectable 85-90%. Running with the Parkrun crowd will add at least 5%.

As GNT says the slower you run this week, the easier it is to beat it next.

knocky1 · Oct 3, 2019

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
This is quite painful to read, so it must have been a lot worse to do. In the words of Churchill I guess it a case of 'keep buggering on'.

Dehydration. Pure and simple. At mile 8 I drank some sulphur water from a fountain and picked up a bit. Drank 5 pints of water after before feeling recovered or needing a pee.

I NEVER learn.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Oct 3, 2019

A training tip from the latest Runners World specifically for 5K performance.

Divide the session into 3 x 5 minute segments with a 2 minute break between each one. For each of the 5 minutes in each segment, run 30 seconds @ low intensity; 20 seconds @ mid-intensity; 10 seconds @ high intensity.
It's claimed (University of Copenhagen) that over a 7 week period, runners improved their 5k by 48 seconds (and lowered blood pressure/cholesterol) (Not sure if this is once a week or whether you use a HRM etc etc; it's a bit thin on details.)

I'm going to give this a go. News of calf injuries to follow...…………….

sjamesb3466 · Oct 3, 2019

[MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION] have you had an email about the potential cancellation of Leicester Marathon?

Will be gutted if they cancel but having witnessed the rain we have had this week with more forecast for the weekend it won't surprise me. We should know by this evening at least.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Oct 3, 2019

knocky1 said:
Dehydration. Pure and simple. At mile 8 I drank some sulphur water from a fountain and picked up a bit. Drank 5 pints of water after before feeling recovered or needing a pee.

I NEVER learn.

The propensity to never learn could be a thread on its own!

Greg Bobkin · Oct 3, 2019

dazzer6666 said:
Actually more shorter, harder intervals will increase your pace - the longer hilly runs will help increase your aerobic endurance so also useful............running faster than your 5k pace is the real key though. Try a few things like :

10 min warm up then 2 mins hard, 2 mins easy, repeat x 5-8 times (then try the same session but with longer efforts)
Reducing ladder - after a warm up, do 1600m, 1200m, 1000m, 800m, 600m, 400m, 200m intervals with reducing jog/walk rests
Longer intervals - say 3 x 1 mile with 5 min walk/jog recovery between each

These are just examples - loads of similar things you can do - but to run faster you've basically got to....run faster. Other key is don't do hard sessions back to back - always have an off/easy day between high effort sessions

I tried my own variation of this one (ish) this morning – although I mis-remembered it :lol:

So – aiming for an average pace of 7 min/mile for the intervals – it went:

6 mins
1 min walk
5 mins
1 min walk
4 mins
1 min walk
3 mins
1 min walk
2 mins
1 min walk
1 min
1 min walk
1min
1 min walk
2 mins
1 min walk
3 mins
1 min walk
4 mins
1 min walk
5 mins
1 min walk
6 mins
Walk.

Average pace of 8:15 over 7.10 miles...

The pace fell off a bit by the latter 4, 5 and 6 minute sets, but it's something to work on. I've historically struggled with intervals and the concentration that's required. That and the fact that I'm not very good at the quick stuff (which is something I'm trying to change, hence the addition of interval-type stuff into my runs.

Nathan · Oct 3, 2019

I was reading about Yasso 800s the other week, trying to work it out for a predicted marathon time of 4hrs, so doing 800 meters in 4 minutes. Has anyone else tried these and are they effective?

The idea being if you can run the Yasso 800's at your time, you should be able to predict your marathon time more accurately. Not sure if that is true but something different to do in training.

dazzer6666 · Oct 3, 2019

Greg Bobkin said:
I tried my own variation of this one (ish) this morning – although I mis-remembered it

So – aiming for an average pace of 7 min/mile for the intervals – it went:

6 mins
1 min walk
5 mins
1 min walk
4 mins
1 min walk
3 mins
1 min walk
2 mins
1 min walk
1 min
1 min walk
1min
1 min walk
2 mins
1 min walk
3 mins
1 min walk
4 mins
1 min walk
5 mins
1 min walk
6 mins
Walk.

Average pace of 8:15 over 7.10 miles...

The pace fell off a bit by the latter 4, 5 and 6 minute sets, but it's something to work on. I've historically struggled with intervals and the concentration that's required. That and the fact that I'm not very good at the quick stuff (which is something I'm trying to change, hence the addition of interval-type stuff into my runs.

Decent effort that, but not surprised the pace fell off - I reckon there is too much effort overall, coupled with insufficient recovery - you've essentially done 40+ mins of the session at or close to 5k pace..........when I do a reducing ladder the recoveries are usually around half as long as the intervals themselves (and breathing/HR should return to almost resting) - ie for the 6 min interval, have a 3 min recovery, for 5 min 2.30 etc. Also, what you've done there is I guess what would be called an 'inverse pyramid' - normally you'd step up to a peak and then drop back (12345654321 mins for example with recovs)

dazzer6666 · Oct 3, 2019

Nathan said:
I was reading about Yasso 800s the other week, trying to work it out for a predicted marathon time of 4hrs, so doing 800 meters in 4 minutes. Has anyone else tried these and are they effective?

The idea being if you can run the Yasso 800's at your time, you should be able to predict your marathon time more accurately. Not sure if that is true but something different to do in training.

Yep, it's an excellent session, although sadly for me I've never been able to translate it into an equivalent marathon time (I think that's more down to me just being basically sh*t at marathon running though and never really cracked it). You really need to do the full 10 (ie 10 x 800m) to see how it translates to the expected marathon time, and run them at a consistent pace. I can usually get through the session in 3.30s or so (with a max 10 second variation) but my marathon time is nowhere near that currently. If you can't do the full 10 it's still a good, testing session. Key is finding the pace that you can maintain throughout the session so there's no drop-off (if pace drops off, you ran the first ones too hard)

Ninja Elephant · Oct 3, 2019

sjamesb3466 said:
[MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION] have you had an email about the potential cancellation of Leicester Marathon?

Will be gutted if they cancel but having witnessed the rain we have had this week with more forecast for the weekend it won't surprise me. We should know by this evening at least.

Jesus.

That would be really frustrating. If it is definitely cancelled before the weekend, I'll resume attacking the parkruns on a weekly basis and get thinking about a new plan. Has it been really biblical consistently? In Brighton we've only really had a couple of bursts of extreme rain, but the drainage is so bad it leaves standing water everywhere. Not ideal. But any event needs the volunteers to get it on, it would be no fun standing in apocalyptic rain for 5 hours. We'll see what gets decided but it would be a real disappointment if it is cancelled.

Nathan said:
I was reading about Yasso 800s the other week, trying to work it out for a predicted marathon time of 4hrs, so doing 800 meters in 4 minutes. Has anyone else tried these and are they effective?

The idea being if you can run the Yasso 800's at your time, you should be able to predict your marathon time more accurately. Not sure if that is true but something different to do in training.

Well, Yasso 800 is a new phrase on me!

[MENTION=24635]Greg Bobkin[/MENTION] - I like the sound of your session, starting hard and then finishing hard again. I've never done that sort of thing that way around - I did a 1 min, 2, 3, 4, 5 and back down again purely running loops of the Level in Brighton earlier in the year, the concentration it takes is as challenging as the pace for me. Also, the time that you get out is extraordinary to me!

Greg Bobkin · Oct 3, 2019

dazzer6666 said:
Decent effort that, but not surprised the pace fell off - I reckon there is too much effort overall, coupled with insufficient recovery - you've essentially done 40+ mins of the session at or close to 5k pace..........when I do a reducing ladder the recoveries are usually around half as long as the intervals themselves (and breathing/HR should return to almost resting) - ie for the 6 min interval, have a 3 min recovery, for 5 min 2.30 etc. Also, what you've done there is I guess what would be called an 'inverse pyramid' - normally you'd step up to a peak and then drop back (12345654321 mins for example with recovs)

Yeah, like I said, I couldn't exactly remember what you put, hence the extra effort. It's probably something that I could build up to in time, but I think I'll tweak it a bit – especially because my calves are already screaming at me

For your recoveries are you walking or light jogging?

Ninja Elephant said:
Jesus. That would be really frustrating. If it is definitely cancelled before the weekend, I'll resume attacking the parkruns on a weekly basis and get thinking about a new plan. Has it been really biblical consistently? In Brighton we've only really had a couple of bursts of extreme rain, but the drainage is so bad it leaves standing water everywhere. Not ideal. But any event needs the volunteers to get it on, it would be no fun standing in apocalyptic rain for 5 hours. We'll see what gets decided but it would be a real disappointment if it is cancelled.

Well, Yasso 800 is a new phrase on me!

[MENTION=24635]Greg Bobkin[/MENTION] - I like the sound of your session, starting hard and then finishing hard again. I've never done that sort of thing that way around - I did a 1 min, 2, 3, 4, 5 and back down again purely running loops of the Level in Brighton earlier in the year, the concentration it takes is as challenging as the pace for me. Also, the time that you get out is extraordinary to me!

I think I'd need to do it on a track or on a specific course. Years ago I tried the whole 'running between lampposts' and just ended up saying to myself 'just one more for a bit more rest' or just not bothering to go for it when I should have done. At least if I was going over the same bit of ground every time, I'd know what I needed to do.

Most people think my times are extreme, but it's just normal to me – I've always been an early morning person. When you get a sunrise like this morning, it makes it even more worth it, too!

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