Official Running Thread

Bozza · Mar 7, 2021

Herr Tubthumper said:
Wow. Thanks for this. I mentioned I want to get up-to-speed before making such a purchase* and this will tie in with my (actual) birthday in the summer. I feel this purchase is meant to be.

* I figure I will look a bit of a plum wearing such shoes whilst a few pounds over weight and blowing like a horse when grinding around the neighbourhood.

Because I don't race I've never really considered buying a pair because, given their supposed limited longevity, I'm not sure I could justify the price, even with that 25% off.

I think the Zoom Fly 3 was considered the training version of the Vaporfly and I do have a pair of these which were my "fast shoes" before I bought the Tempos and I've really enjoyed them. Mine are approaching 450 miles now and I've worn through the (thin) rubber on the outside heel of both shoes due to how I strike. I'd certainly get another pair and at £140 RRP (shop around or use the birthday discount!) they feel like good value for money to me.

dazzer6666 · Mar 7, 2021

Simgull said:
Well done. Funnily enough my Garmin told me I’d set a new mile PB at is morning during my notparkrun of 6:43 so you’re way ahead of me. Completed the notparkrun in 21:23 (AG 71.2%) which I am pretty happy with- hopefully can get near to 21 mins when parkrun returns - and I’ll be a year older which will boost the AG.

That’s speedy......I’m way off the pace atm but alos stumble into a new age cat in June

Artie Fufkin · Mar 7, 2021

Herr Tubthumper said:
Wow. Thanks for this. I mentioned I want to get up-to-speed before making such a purchase* and this will tie in with my (actual) birthday in the summer. I feel this purchase is meant to be.

* I figure I will look a bit of a plum wearing such shoes whilst a few pounds over weight and blowing like a horse when grinding around the neighbourhood.

Another fan of the Nike Vaporfly NEXT% here. By far the best distance road racing shoe around, if you're not looking for a shoe with a high durability. I save mine for racing.

Artie Fufkin · Mar 7, 2021

Bozza said:
Go for the Alphaflys!

I wouldn't worry about the Alphaflys. There's many reasons most of the Nike sponsored elites stick to racing in the NEXT%'s over the Alphaflys. The Alphafly was made specifically for Eliud Kipchoge and not too many elites, if any, have Kipchoge's running form.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 8, 2021

Artie Fufkin said:
Another fan of the Nike Vaporfly NEXT% here. By far the best distance road racing shoe around, if you're not looking for a shoe with a high durability. I save mine for racing.

When I buy a pair I imagine I will also use them sparingly, they won’t be an everyday shoe. How do they feel when you run in them? Do they feel very diffident? Do they alter your gait or foot strike?

knocky1 · Mar 8, 2021

Herr Tubthumper said:
When I buy a pair I imagine I will also use them sparingly, they won’t be an everyday shoe. How do they feel when you run in them? Do they feel very diffident? Do they alter your gait or foot strike?

I’m still not sure how mine feel but the times are improved. Problem is not being able to do training mileage to get the feel of them. Hove Prom is a particular nightmare with coarse rough broken asphalt, so I wear other trainers to get to smoother surfaces for the full out efforts. #tightwads

One huge positive is the cushioning and how I get less foot jarring. This must help recovery and help prevent injury.

Answer is I’ll take advantage of the [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] birthday scheme and get a training pair of Nike Air Zoom Tempo NEXT%

The added bonus will be my AG improvement by bringing forward my birthday by 8 months.&#55357;&#56833;

Garry Nelson's teacher · Mar 8, 2021

The added bonus will be my AG improvement by bringing forward my birthday by 8 months.��[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't put it past you.......... :wink:

Artie Fufkin · Mar 8, 2021

Herr Tubthumper said:
When I buy a pair I imagine I will also use them sparingly, they won’t be an everyday shoe. How do they feel when you run in them? Do they feel very diffident? Do they alter your gait or foot strike?

I've got used to them now but yes when I first ran in them they felt different because of the carbon fibre plate. The same for the first iteration of the shoe, the Vaporfly 4%'s. You feel like you have little spring boards in the midsoles. The springy energy return propelling you forward makes them feel quick.

I don't think they alter my gait or foot strike but I don't run a whole ton of miles in them or any other carbon plated shoe because they are a different ride.

Another big plus is I also think the midsole foam is pretty magic in terms of reducing the rate of fatigue. My legs definitely don't feel as beat up after racing in them.

If you're looking for a shoe with a similar make up but for training I'm loving Saucony's Endorphin Speed. These have a nylon plate so they're much more subtle than a carbon plate. I do my long tempo effort work in these.

dazzer6666 · Mar 8, 2021

Artie Fufkin said:
I've got used to them now but yes when I first ran in them they felt different because of the carbon fibre plate. The same for the first iteration of the shoe, the Vaporfly 4%'s. You feel like you have little spring boards in the midsoles. The springy energy return propelling you forward makes them feel quick.

I don't think they alter my gait or foot strike but I don't run a whole ton of miles in them or any other carbon plated shoe because they are a different ride.

Another big plus is I also think the midsole foam is pretty magic in terms of reducing the rate of fatigue. My legs definitely don't feel as beat up after racing in them.

If you're looking for a shoe with a similar make up but for training I'm loving Saucony's Endorphin Speed. These have a nylon plate so they're much more subtle than a carbon plate. I do my long tempo effort work in these.

I've got a pair of Hoka Carbon Xs - haven't used them much but wouldn't want to run far in them. Very harsh ride after my normal shoes. Whether they are any faster I don't really know as I'm so slow at the moment it'd take an actual rocket to speed me up.

Artie Fufkin · Mar 8, 2021

dazzer6666 said:
I've got a pair of Hoka Carbon Xs - haven't used them much but wouldn't want to run far in them. Very harsh ride after my normal shoes. Whether they are any faster I don't really know as I'm so slow at the moment it'd take an actual rocket to speed me up.

hey dazzer, I like my Hoka Carbon X's but yes I definitely feel a lot more ground contact in them. They don't feel as cushioned in comparison to the Vaporfly's. Plus for racing I prefer a higher drop shoe - 8-10 mm. I think the Carbon X's have a 5 mm drop and that's a little too low for me. I still like them though (love Hoka).

I've got a pair of Hoka Mach 4's arriving this week which I'm really excited about! They sound like a pretty special everyday road shoe.

dazzer6666 · Mar 8, 2021

Artie Fufkin said:
hey dazzer, I like my Hoka Carbon X's but yes I definitely feel a lot more ground contact in them. They don't feel as cushioned in comparison to the Vaporfly's. Plus for racing I prefer a higher drop shoe - 8-10 mm. I think the Carbon X's have a 5 mm drop and that's a little too low for me. I still like them though (love Hoka).

I've got a pair of Hoka Mach 4's arriving this week which I'm really excited about! They sound like a pretty special everyday road shoe.

If/when I get myself into some kind of shape I might have a look at the Nikes but def not worth it at the moment and I don't really do 'racing' anyway (occasional parkrun aside, I genuinely can't remember the last race I did that was below marathon distance). I use Cliftons for the vast majority of my running (ATRs on the trails sometimes) - and in wide fit as I like to have plenty of room for my toes to spread out. Fantastically comfy shoes.

knocky1 · Mar 8, 2021

Whilst talking about lightweight shoes I must get rid off my excess winter jelly belly weight equivalent to the weight of 7-10 pairs of trainers.
I am at heaviest weight ever at 12 stone and getting rid off the xs 7lbs could improve a mile time by nearly 15 seconds according to the calculator.......https://runbundle.com/tools/weight-vs-pace-calculator

Bozza · Mar 8, 2021

knocky1 said:
Whilst talking about lightweight shoes I must get rid off my excess winter jelly belly weight equivalent to the weight of 7-10 pairs of trainers.
I am at heaviest weight ever at 12 stone and getting rid off the xs 7lbs could improve a mile time by nearly 15 seconds according to the calculator.......https://runbundle.com/tools/weight-vs-pace-calculator

I weigh myself every Monday morning, and I'm currently at what I think is my lowest ever adult weight at 12st 1.25lb, having lost 7.5lb so far this year.

I'm not trying to lose weight particularly - 12st 7lb is about right for my build, I think - but I'm having a period off booze to see if my weight ticked down at all, and then to see if that brought any direct running improvement, as I'm aware of the 1-2 seconds per mile per pound rule of thumb.

I guess it's difficult to quantify the improvement that being lighter brings as there are many other factors at play all of the time. My running volume has increased a fair bit over the last few months - last week I completed 73 miles and over 5,000 feet of hills and I feel fine for it. Not long ago a 40-mile week would have me feeling shattered.

Yesterday I decided to run for two hours at what Seth James DeMoor calls "steasy" pace - ie steady easy. I covered 15.4 miles at 7:47/mile pace without feeling like I'd really exerted myself, yet it was just over a year ago that I couldn't hold 8:00/mile pace for a half-marathon.

I do wonder when my age (I turn 50 in September) will start to cancel out the improvements I still seem to be making.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 8, 2021

Bozza said:
I do wonder when my age (I turn 50 in September) will start to cancel out the improvements I still seem to be making.

age cancelling out improvements is the moment I dread. Haruki Murakami touches on this in his excellent memoir What I Talk About When I Talk About Running. My next marathon will probably tell me if I’m over the hill or not; my times had been marginally improving and then I had a disaster in the heat of Stockholm 2018 and then injuries and Covid got in the way of subsequent races.

Springal · Mar 8, 2021

I hate running, always have. But I am reasonably fit and train probably 4-5 times a week in a mixture of cardio / strength based work. I've been roped into a 10 mile run in September so thought I better get training.

Been comfortably running 4-6km at a time, average pace of around 5'20/km over the last few weeks which feels pretty decent - although reading some of the posts above slightly concerned at my average heart rate of 155bpm (age mid-30s!)

What is the best way to increase distance? Realistically I can only get out probably once or maybe twice a week, I have just been tending to add on 0.5km / 1km at a time but not sure if this is the right tactic or should I focus on staying at a reasonable distance and improving my times?

Artie Fufkin · Mar 8, 2021

Bozza said:
I weigh myself every Monday morning, and I'm currently at what I think is my lowest ever adult weight at 12st 1.25lb, having lost 7.5lb so far this year.

I'm not trying to lose weight particularly - 12st 7lb is about right for my build, I think - but I'm having a period off booze to see if my weight ticked down at all, and then to see if that brought any direct running improvement, as I'm aware of the 1-2 seconds per mile per pound rule of thumb.

I guess it's difficult to quantify the improvement that being lighter brings as there are many other factors at play all of the time. My running volume has increased a fair bit over the last few months - last week I completed 73 miles and over 5,000 feet of hills and I feel fine for it. Not long ago a 40-mile week would have me feeling shattered.

Yesterday I decided to run for two hours at what Seth James DeMoor calls "steasy" pace - ie steady easy. I covered 15.4 miles at 7:47/mile pace without feeling like I'd really exerted myself, yet it was just over a year ago that I couldn't hold 8:00/mile pace for a half-marathon.

I do wonder when my age (I turn 50 in September) will start to cancel out the improvements I still seem to be making.

Super running Bozza! :thumbsup:

Artie Fufkin · Mar 8, 2021

Herr Tubthumper said:
age cancelling out improvements is the moment I dread. Haruki Murakami touches on this in his excellent memoir What I Talk About When I Talk About Running. My next marathon will probably tell me if I’m over the hill or not; my times had been marginally improving and then I had a disaster in the heat of Stockholm 2018 and then injuries and Covid got in the way of subsequent races.

Such a wonderful book!

Simgull · Mar 8, 2021

Springal said:
I hate running, always have. But I am reasonably fit and train probably 4-5 times a week in a mixture of cardio / strength based work. I've been roped into a 10 mile run in September so thought I better get training.

Been comfortably running 4-6km at a time, average pace of around 5'20/km over the last few weeks which feels pretty decent - although reading some of the posts above slightly concerned at my average heart rate of 155bpm (age mid-30s!)

What is the best way to increase distance? Realistically I can only get out probably once or maybe twice a week, I have just been tending to add on 0.5km / 1km at a time but not sure if this is the right tactic or should I focus on staying at a reasonable distance and improving my times?

No more than 10% increase both of individual runs and weekly total is a good rule of thumb.

Try running slower and see how you feel- 180- age is a rule of thumb for HR ask maybe run at a set HR of 145 - you’ll get quicker at the same HR as fitness/strength increases. Also consider mixing in some hills if you are running on the flat.

Sounds like 10 mile is well within your grasp by September though. You could train for a marathon in 16-20 weeks.

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 8, 2021

Artie Fufkin said:
Such a wonderful book!

Agree. I read it a long time ago now, sufficiently long ago that i cannot remember the details (another age related issue :smile:

) so I’m minded to pick it up again.

dazzer6666 · Mar 8, 2021

Springal said:
I hate running, always have. But I am reasonably fit and train probably 4-5 times a week in a mixture of cardio / strength based work. I've been roped into a 10 mile run in September so thought I better get training.

Been comfortably running 4-6km at a time, average pace of around 5'20/km over the last few weeks which feels pretty decent - although reading some of the posts above slightly concerned at my average heart rate of 155bpm (age mid-30s!)

What is the best way to increase distance? Realistically I can only get out probably once or maybe twice a week, I have just been tending to add on 0.5km / 1km at a time but not sure if this is the right tactic or should I focus on staying at a reasonable distance and improving my times?

As [MENTION=26634]Simgull[/MENTION] says, just ease off a bit and your HR will drop, and you should be able to carry on for longer. Adding 0.5-1k a week on your current run/volume is a decent approach.

If you can get out twice a week I'd probably do one 'steady' run (continuous effort, gradually increase the distance) and one where you mix things up a bit - no need to get too scientific, combo of pushing on uphills and/or faster efforts, with slower recovery jogs in between, incorporated into the run would be fine.

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