SOME HOME TRUTHS - and you ain't gonna like it...

It pains me to say it, but I think there are some home truths that we have all got to accept, and learn to come to terms with over the coming weeks and months.

1. This is an average Division Two team which is simply not equipped for promotion, even in a very poor division. Leon has weighed in with a decent goals tally this season, but without him, we'd already be mid table or below. Too many players in the squad are now way, way past their sell-by, and I'm talking about Jones, Hart, Oatway, Carpenter, Mayo, Watson, Pethick. They're not going to get any better now. The Championship years are behind them, and they are no longer a force at this level. They don't even look up for it most weeks any more. I like the look of Virgo, El Abd and Robinson, but outside of them, the other youngsters are, at best average, and I'm talking about McPhee, Harding, Hammond and Marney. With the best will in the world, they are not just not going to be good enough to take us forward. The County League beckons for them I fear.

2. Expectations are basically too high. We've been spoilt for the last few years. Given the state the club is in, and the joke of a "stadium" we call a football ground, it is nothing short of a frigging miracle that we brought a season of First Division football there. That was achieved through a legendary goalscorer, and a rock solid defence. We had absolutely NO RIGHT to expect First Division football then, and to aspire to be a First Division club right now is simply unrealistic. Micky Adams was able to do a complete overhaul of the squad, which was desperately needed after finishing 91st two seasons running. The drain of playing at Withdean, and the Falmer application, means that McGhee is not in a position to do the same, and frankly, its not as urgent, as we are not in imminent danger of dropping into the Conference. People have got to be realistic and lower their expectations at the moment. Pointless moaning at McGhee, cos there's feck-all he can do about inheriting a sub-standard squad of players.

3. We are victims of our own success, and we've flattered to decieve. Frustration with the team and McGhee is building because we've had Division One football last season, and we managed to hit the top of the table early this season, but we're now witnessing it slowly slide away. Be honest. Can you recall even half a dozen really good performances this season ? Cos I can't. We've been good in fits and starts, maybe a half here and there. But I can barely recall a sustained performance where we've really played bloody well for 90 minutes. The odd game here and there where we've racked up a score (Wycombe, Blackpool, Grimsby), but the vast majority, and I'm talking 80% of the games this season, I'd say we've been pretty much piss poor. Thats because, basically, its not a very good team any more, and we have to accept that. Its only cos this division is so rubbish that we somehow find ourselves in 6th place.

As I said, I don't like saying it, but I think its been plain to see for a while now. I've accepted that right now, we are at the very best, an average Division Two club. We cannot expect any more than that unless, or until, we get Falmer. Anyone expecting anything better than that in the meantime is just deluding themselves. Like it or not, you'd better get used to rubbing shoulders with the likes of Brentford, Oldham Peterborough and Hartlepool, cos it AIN'T gonna get any better than that for a few years yet...if at all.

Learn to live with it - cos thats the reality my friends. If anyone can argue the toss on any of that and tell me I'm talking out of my arse, then step right up. But sadly, I think I am right on this one.

I'm afraid that I have to agree with most of your points.

I agree with most of that but I'd say we are above average in this division, and with everyone fit I'd expect to make the play-offs.

However, we simply cannot afford to go up because we would need 9 new 1st team players, and I think we'd be better off in Div 2 where the youngsters such as Virgo, Robinson, El Abd, and watch out for Ben Watson, can all come through. Put them in Div 1 and they could well sink without a trace.

The reality is that this is as high as we can hope/expect to be in our current situation. Hold station for a couple of years and the push on in our new stadium is how the future pans out for me.

If we lose the dream of Falmer then make the most of this season, because you won't see it this good again for some time.

Blimey long. Will read in the morning.

Don't like, but already knew fella. And been saying it for a while.

(why have I dropped words from sentences?)

Quicker innit. Decision understood. Late for heavy reading.
All look better in morning.

It is like a roller coaster, the mood swings going up and down with results.

Look at the forecasts for the Luton match:

http://www.northstandchat.biz/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16328

How many thought we would win? Quite a lot didn't!

Dunno about roller coaster...perhaps.
But I just feel we are treading water right now. There seems no point to any of this unless we get that Falmer decision and actually have a future to look forward to. Its not that I don't care about the football - I do. But I'm weary of raising my expectations with this team now. I'm not angry with Mark McGhee or the players. I do think that on the whole, they're doing their best.
But busting a gut for Division One right now is futile. I'm afraid I am resigned to mediocrity for the forseeable future, and anything else will just be a pleasant surprise.

Sorry if I'm bringing you all down. I've had a few shandies, and I've come over all melancholy.

perseus said:

It is like a roller coaster, the mood swings going up and down with results.

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Ain't THAT the truth.

As is the truth that we can still only truly perform when we come out scrapping as underdogs. Put us in a game we should clearly win, or at least get something out of, and we tend to come unstuck.

Still, at this particular point in this particular season, it's the truly madly deeply LEAST of our worries. KTF.

Totally agree. Its a shame a few of the players mentioned have another season on their contracts, otherwise I think quite a few of them would be looking for new clubs in the summer, and still may be.....
Remember if McGhee stays for his contracts length, it'll be the first time since winning division 3 that a manager will be in control over the pre season and following campaign.
I except Falmer to be confirmed shortly, and when that happens i think the money will come into the club for the squad to be strenghten for next season. I doubt whether a manager of Mcghee status would have joined otherwise.
As for Falmer, unless Prescott ignores and condems the latest report, the club should sue. After all if it was a trail, and all the evidence had been heard, and the jury were out, imagine what would happen someone handed the jury more evidence??
Basically I HOPE and think that this report will harm the 'against falmer' cause. As for the team, play offs this year, and even if we do go up, if falmer is confirmed, people will come for with money to keep us up, and in McGhee we again have an excellent manager. (And remember most of Millwalls first team squad are out of contract this summer .

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FALMER NOW!!!!!!!!

Easy, you're dead right, I read your long posting and I didn't like it.

And you're not going to like me saying this either. My biggest pet hate about NSC is the amount of postings that paint the Albion team as a far worse team than they are.

And I'm not talking about the FG-type postings. FG's drivel is patently absurd and could theoretically be the work of a satirical genius, when you see them, you laugh and move on, your thought processes generally undisturbed.

No, the postings I'm talking about are the ones that marshall seemingly reasonable ideas and valid arguments to rubbish the prospects of the team. They depress me and make we wonder whether Albion has a greater share of short-memoried whingeing fans than other clubs.

I'm just baffled why anyone does this. The point about supporting a team is saying, we're sixth in the table, can we do better if we do this, or that, or try this idea. What is "supporting" a team got to do with saying, we're sixth in the table, and actually we should be 13 or 14th. Don't understand that mentality, never have, never will.

I'm not saying what you wrote Easy was all bad, in fact there was a lot of very sensible points in there, but it is your GENERALISATIONS I just find unhelpful and pointlessly depressing.

"This is an average Division 2 team that is not equipped for promotion". How do you know? Have we played the 46 teams yet for you to know that for sure? What we have played is 30 games, and we are in the play-off spots. We had a bad evening last night, we probably did just about deserve to lose but could easily have got something but for some dreadful refereeing. The damage was losing the game in hand we had over play-off rivals. Big deal. We remain in the fight and in contention.

What's this silly argument that if we didn't have Leon we'd be down in mid-table. Isn't that as foolish as me saying if we had Thierry Henry we'd be 20 points clear at the top? Last time I looked, we DID sign Leon (great job Dick Knight at renewing our championship squad) and he IS our player.

The list of past-it players you mention is very hit and miss. Carpenter has been excellent for us this year. Oatway has has injuries but was outstanding against Plymouth. Mayo has still a lot of good football left in him. Watson, well maybe we missed him more than we thought tonight and Gary Hart was close to our best player in Luton.

The points you make about high expectations and the fine achievement of Division 1 are very good ones. But while we remain in play-off contention, it is ridiculous to paint Division 1 as some kind of Himalayan peak that we should be in awe of.

Your point about only playing well in about 5 halves of football this year is again very misleading, because it depends on a very narrow definition of what playing well means.

The strength of our team are unglamorous ones, goalkeeping, defence. We nearly always play well in these areas, particularly at home. Are these achievements not to be celebrated as much as Leon Knight's goals? And I'm not just talking about the Cullip/Butters partnership, but all bits of the team that strive to give us this stability, the midfield and forwards, who track back and give our team its very solid shape.

This is the reason why we are sixth, we are a hard team to beat, last night was only our ninth such defeat.

No one is denying that McGhee has a huge job of work sorting out our midfield and making us a more fluid team going forward. He has been making progress on this I maintain in the last couple of months. The signing of Big Trev has been a masterstroke and McGhee is plotting the best way we can keep him for most of our remaining 16 games. John Piercy has also been a big bonus up front.

For me, one bad night in Luton is not going to make me forget the progress that McGhee has made, whether you do is, of course, up to you.

Finally, I disagree strongly with your conclusion that "at best" we are an average Division 2 club. You've confused your choice of language with "at worst". On the contrary, "at best", McGhee will maintain our sixth place. And that may well give us long-suffering fans a great day out in Cardiff at the end of the season. While this remains a realistic prospect, I will believe it can happen, because from where I'm sitting, that fulfills the number one criteria of supporting a team.

I'm with London Irish on this one I'm afraid. Easy - you guaranteed getting people to agree with you by saying "you're not going to like this". Unfortunataly I do disagree with you. We have a much better team than people give credit for.

And if El-Abd, Virgo, and Robinson come through then that's a better proportion than most clubs out there. Personally I think we'll see Hinshelwood, McPhee, Harding & Watson also come through, and then we have players like Beck & Ben Watson who could also make it. So IMHO we'll have 7-9 youth team players coming through in the 24 months. That would be awesome.

I don't think we should say the playing side can be ignored while we await the Falmer decision. Yes - Falmer is the most important thing at the club, but let's not belittle our team who have achieved so much, and promise to achieve once again.

Football fans by nature seem to get happy or depressed on the back of each result - perfectly natural. Now I've only seen two games this season (Barnsley & Plymouth). We took 6 points from those two and, although Barnsley was a very poor game which we nicked with the help of the ref, Plymouth was like the old Div 2 championship team again.

For me, at the centre Butters and Cullip looked very strong. Knight wasn't our only great player either, in both games I saw Virgo looked outstanding and a real prospect for the future. I've lost count of the number of times Oatway is slagged off but again, in the games I saw he looked solid as a rock. True, against Barnsley we gave the ball away far too often and only really looked dangerous when playing 4-3-3 but still I came back here with a warm glow.

Now imagine my leave had got put back a week and my two games were Wycombe and Luton away. I'd have probably come back foaming at the mouth and posted something that was more FG than Easy 10.

Is it fair to say we are strong at home and less than average away? That being so all we need to do to get a day out in Cardiff is perk up away from home. Luck also balances itself out - for instance against Barnsley Leon got to take his pen twice and they had a nailed on one turned down. Last night according to the posts of those who were there we had a blatent one turned down that eventually led to Leon getting sent off.

Finally the old spirit of Brighton fans since Charles Hoile's report has gladdend my soul immensly. From being absolutely gutted when I read what he said I'm now full of pride for the way everyone associated with the club has pulled together. Make no mistake Easy, you're right when you say the Falmer decision is the most important thing but I truly believe that with the way we can pull together in crisis it's the sky that's the limit, not 14th in Div 2.

To win 2 championships in an athletics stadium, making a loss of thousands of pounds each week because of it, while keeping hold of some of the best players in the second division, still attracting the likes of Leon Knight, is no small miracle.

It is a testament to Dick Knight, the staff and managers involved over the last 5/6 years and the fans.

Yes alot of your points are valid, but the positives far outweigh your negatives. This club has more to be proud of than any other!

That's probably the most serious thing i have ever written

And it's going to get better!

Easy, our squad isn't as bad as you suggest. If we weren't missing Rodger and Blackwell, all season we'd be a different side. For a start, Oatway wouldn't be playing (the guy tries hard but he's just not good enough sadly) and we'd have more options at the back.

At this level, those two are key players.

As it is, we're going to finish about 8th or 9th, McGhee will clear out the dead wood and we'll be in play-off contention next season.

The good news is that although we've been detached from the leading pack for a while we have kept in touch with the play off places so far therefore it's not exactly mid table boredom yet. I agree with Simster, we have been missing two of our more senior and influential players and when they return it could be like a couple of new signings. We also have some young players who will have more idea of what it's all about next season and along with the pre season clear out I think we'll be a different kettle of fish next season. But that's not totally writing this one off.

It does show how crap this division is though, where we stumble along from good performance to indifferent and still we are in a play off position.

We are a sub-standard Division 2 team. We either play really well (Plymouth, Rushden, QPR, Wednesday) or play very poor (most games). We will finish mid-table.

Yesterday we deserved to lose. Both goals came from refereeing mistakes but they were the better team. It seems to me as if most teams know how to play us. Close us down, and let us rush our passes (which then goes to hoofing the ball). Yesterday, Luton were playing along the flanks where as we were in the middle of the pitch.

Our squad is average. We play the "albion legends" like Mayo, Hart and Jones - who are past it now. Why did we put Jake on just before full time? McPhee got put on earlier and although he puts 100% into the game, is just not good enough for a team pushing for the playoffs.

Benjamin is a good player, but had a bad game last night (being constant offside). Knight is also good, but seems to lose it every now and again (red card last night). Danny Cullip and Guy Butters were the only men on the pitch last night who actually did anything worthwhile.

A lot of people don't go to the Withdean, and would rather go to away matches. I cannot see any reason why I should spend any more money this season going to away games, when we have been playing like this for months now. I am really skint at the moment, and would rather go to our home games, where there is little atmosphere, but where the team play much better.

Easy 10 said:

It pains me to say it, but I think there are some home truths that we have all got to accept, and learn to come to terms with over the coming weeks and months.

1. This is an average Division Two team which is simply not equipped for promotion, even in a very poor division. Leon has weighed in with a decent goals tally this season, but without him, we'd already be mid table or below. Too many players in the squad are now way, way past their sell-by, and I'm talking about Jones, Hart, Oatway, Carpenter, Mayo, Watson, Pethick. They're not going to get any better now. The Championship years are behind them, and they are no longer a force at this level. They don't even look up for it most weeks any more. I like the look of Virgo, El Abd and Robinson, but outside of them, the other youngsters are, at best average, and I'm talking about McPhee, Harding, Hammond and Marney. With the best will in the world, they are not just not going to be good enough to take us forward. The County League beckons for them I fear.

2. Expectations are basically too high. We've been spoilt for the last few years. Given the state the club is in, and the joke of a "stadium" we call a football ground, it is nothing short of a frigging miracle that we brought a season of First Division football there. That was achieved through a legendary goalscorer, and a rock solid defence. We had absolutely NO RIGHT to expect First Division football then, and to aspire to be a First Division club right now is simply unrealistic. Micky Adams was able to do a complete overhaul of the squad, which was desperately needed after finishing 91st two seasons running. The drain of playing at Withdean, and the Falmer application, means that McGhee is not in a position to do the same, and frankly, its not as urgent, as we are not in imminent danger of dropping into the Conference. People have got to be realistic and lower their expectations at the moment. Pointless moaning at McGhee, cos there's feck-all he can do about inheriting a sub-standard squad of players.

3. We are victims of our own success, and we've flattered to decieve. Frustration with the team and McGhee is building because we've had Division One football last season, and we managed to hit the top of the table early this season, but we're now witnessing it slowly slide away. Be honest. Can you recall even half a dozen really good performances this season ? Cos I can't. We've been good in fits and starts, maybe a half here and there. But I can barely recall a sustained performance where we've really played bloody well for 90 minutes. The odd game here and there where we've racked up a score (Wycombe, Blackpool, Grimsby), but the vast majority, and I'm talking 80% of the games this season, I'd say we've been pretty much piss poor. Thats because, basically, its not a very good team any more, and we have to accept that. Its only cos this division is so rubbish that we somehow find ourselves in 6th place.

As I said, I don't like saying it, but I think its been plain to see for a while now. I've accepted that right now, we are at the very best, an average Division Two club. We cannot expect any more than that unless, or until, we get Falmer. Anyone expecting anything better than that in the meantime is just deluding themselves. Like it or not, you'd better get used to rubbing shoulders with the likes of Brentford, Oldham Peterborough and Hartlepool, cos it AIN'T gonna get any better than that for a few years yet...if at all.

Learn to live with it - cos thats the reality my friends. If anyone can argue the toss on any of that and tell me I'm talking out of my arse, then step right up. But sadly, I think I am right on this one.

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Agree with just about all of that. The only real query I would have is over Magee. Nothing I have seen tells me he has the powers of organisation or inspiration that can lift the team above the very ordinary. That does not mean he is a poor manager, just not one that is ever going to light the spark I think we need.

Re: Re: SOME HOME TRUTHS - and you ain't gonna like it...

Dandyman said:

. That does not mean he is a poor manager, just not one that is ever going to light the spark I think we need.

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Reading are probably thinking the same about Coppell. Big difference is McGhee sounds like he cares in post match interviews

Fair enough, I take on board a lot of your points, in particular London Irish, who clearly took the trouble to spend a lot of time with his reply. But its a game of opinions, and I stand by mine. This team has rarely inspired me this season, and I think the majority of performances served up has been of a pretty poor standard. There is a clear difference between this Division Two team, and the last one we had at this level. Against the vast majority of teams, we are no longer capable of running the show from start to finish. Gone are the days when we'd nick a goal, and look impregnable for the rest of the match, with the oppositions efforts just looking futile. If we somehow managed to get promoted, I'd be over the moon, but at the same time bloody terrified as to what would happen to this team in D1, cos we've still got no money to significantly strengthen the squad.

Anyway, look. I don't make a habit of kicking off threads like this, and I'm not going to become a morose, miserable bastard on NSC who is contstantly on a downer with the team. I'll enjoy the victories and bemoan the defeats like everyone else. It was just an honest assessment as to where, personally, I see the club right now. I'd love this team to prove me totally wrong, and go on a nice unbeaten run and cement our place in the Playoffs, I really hope they do. I'm still paying for a new Season Ticket this month.
Its just that deep down, I just don't believe we are really good enough.