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Grumpy OLD ar$e please :lolol: Edit to add - in fact I am even old enough to remember the Stockport air crash.

The first section of that linked reports states "Update: The later part of this article is based on information provided by the Kiev Spanish air controller. Since posting this article, we have received reports to the effect the Spanish Air controller is fake and that the twitter message were...

So what. Common sense also says you do not walk in certain areas of London N5 at night. If you are then attacked by someone and die whilst doing so that is still murder.

The 'seperatists' almost certainly did not have the technical knowledge to operate the necessary radar equipment. That would have to have been done by a trained technician. Now I wonder which country with a close border to the area may have those kind of trained technicians? Oh, and I am well...

Was there an officially delared no fly zone in place? If not then the airliner was flying in international airspace and whoever shot it down has no justification at all. To claim otherwise and to allow that claim to stand will open a VERY nasty can of worms. Edit to add - I realise you are...

Absdolutely, albeit he does it far less than the rethuglicans do when they control the US and wreak havoc throughout the world.

When have I said that? I'm not the one saying killing people is in some way justifiable.

If you recklessly and negliently fire a loaded gun into a crowded room you are guilty of murder if you hit and kill someone. If the missile was fired deliberately but a mistake was made in hitting a civilian airliner then I would suggest that act is both reckless and negligent. I suggest you...

I know you are and for once I actually think you are being fairly reasonable - for you anyway.

He deserves to be called a murderer over Anna Stepanovna Politkovskaya if for nothing else.

That's the problem with playing with rabid wolves as Putin has been doing in the Ukraine. You think you are controlling them but they are still rabid wolves and will do the unpredictable. Putin has been playing with fire for a long time now, it is not surprising that he is finally going to...

Weasel words, you are wriggling on a hook trying to deny the fairly evident evidence of who shot this plane down. Responsibility rests solely with the man at the top who supported the 'seperatists' and then went on to arm them.

I accept it was almost certianly a mistake but to seek to justify it in any way, as it seems to me Czechmate is seeking to do, is pathetic.

So that makes the Russian facilitated murder of 298 people on a civilian aircraft acceptable in what way?

Do you think the seperatists were justified in shooting down a civilian airliner flying in a commercial air route using a Russian supplied weapon?

Except of course there is footage apparently showing the launcher being moved into Donetskk hours before the Russian backed murders took place. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/389683/MH17-Buk-missile-launcher