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Indeed. And having dragged myself out of the gutter through hard work and talent, I have eschewed treading on the faces of those on the ladder below me. The helping hand not the iron fist, to quote another working class boy made good, Billy Bragg. And anyway. Champagne is too gassy and cold*. I...

Is this a 5 minute argument of the full half hour? ???

Yes. Upset? Not for myself. I'm well off. Minted. You?

Did Blair mislead? Yes. Did this make the Iraq war illegal? No. Was the Iraq war illegal? Maybe. Do I care? No.

I think it was the flippant way he left. The whole thing was like some sixth form wheeze at Eton, involving betting with someone else's money, that went wrong, There was no honour in it.

Well....Cameroon used a promise of a referendum (which he thought he would win) to curry votes in a general election from people who would vote tory anyway, plus the Brexit labour wankers who he hoped would switch to help him become PM. Great plan. OK, referendum then.... But he cocked up the...

OK. So who decided on the simple majority rubric in 2018 (or whenever the Great Self-immolation took place - I'm trying to forget), and why did nobody insist on greater rigour?

Precisely. One of my pals is a businessman who voted leave becuse he had been persuaded that EU 'red tape, was thwarting his enterprise. He tells me now that red tape has increased, and he feels he was lied to. And you're right. Nobody knew much of anything about the issues. My view was simply...

So Cameron actively thwarted an attempt to recreate the original legitimacy criteria (60%, and a minimum turnout) and insisted on a simple majority of votes cast? He's an even bigger arsehole than I thought :ohmy:

Oh, don't get me wrong. I absolutely hate referenda. It is the last refuge of the charlatan politician, lacking the parliamentary support or powers of persuasion to enact a policy, reaching for the rabble to push it through. Having referenda is the worst form of political lunacy after having a...

It wasn't undemocratic when we voted to join the EU using a 60:40 rubric. It was wise, and safeguarded. It is much more undemocratic to enact life-changing societal changes on a knife-edge 50:50 basis. I hope to f*** any euthanasian referendum isn't decided on a 50%+ basis or I will doubtless...

Quite. The tories were even more gung ho about backing 'our American friends'. Had Blair not joined in we would have absolutely had a tory government voted in next time for labour's 'shameless abandonment of our greatest ally'. "war crimes" my arse. When did @Lenny Rider turn into wet-lettuce...

<sigh>

I agree that Farage would never have shut up. Whether he is sufficiently charismatic to have led a ragged rabble up the Mall to enact insurrection (etc.) is a moot point, though. Noisy yes. Impactful. Hmmmm. It occurs to me....it is odd that now we have 'left' the EU, there is no Farage...

Sounds like he's blaming Blair for being the mastermind behind Brown, them man who caused the global financial crash. Later today I am hoping how he will explain how Farage, a massively pro EU politician, who was never happier than sitting as an MEP, masterminded the Brexit fiasco simply to...

If the case had been made for 60:40 as it was when we joined, then f*** Farage. He doesn't run the country. Anyway, yeah, it would have been better that Cameron had had some balls and said that parliament runs the country and governments are elected to do so. We don't run the nation with...

If she knew a good dope dealer, which seems likely, I'm sure the boys would have been all over her like a dose of fresher's regret.

I heard they were C & A ???

Truss has always been confused. Too much chalice an ting at uni, perhaps... She became the president of the Oxford University Liberal Democrats in her first year[19] and a member of the national executive committee of Liberal Democrat Youth and Students (LDYS) in 1995.[20] During Truss's...

Cameroon for the pointless Brexit referendum that he cocked up by not setting a 60:40 margin for change. And campaigning properly. Like when we had the vote to join. And for then f***ing off, leaving the absolute chaos that followed. Years of pissing about culminating in the great Johnson...