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You really are a bottler when challenged.

'sake. At least have the courage of your own convictions and not wimp out with "it was just a joke" line. And I thought us agnostics were supposed to be the cowards.

You're happy to accept my reasons for being an agnostic. That's good. Oh.. you're not happy to accept my reasons for being an agnostic. Apparently I'm not telling the truth when I say that it's because I genuinely don't know but because I'm afraid. Cheers for telling me what I think.

Yes...I am aware of that and it's been answered. The point still stands. Something came from nothing or if not nothing, something very mysterious and unknowable.

And yes. Big fan. Not so much his brother although he is extremely good value.

Eh? I think you're the one using the strongest language to describe agnosticism on here. I've already told you I'm fine with it all.

Ignore - I misread your post.

I'm with you on that but we do know that from inert mass can come life, we're proof of that. There's something in all of us whilst we're alive that's intangible but gives us power of thought and all that goes with it. It's incredible and we know it's true. I'm not ruling out that likewise, out...

Amen to that. Culturally, I'm what Douglas Murray calls 'culturally C of E'. I like the tradition, the ethos, the lack of fundamentalism and zealotry and it is comforting. As I've said, I don't believe in a man-like God though.

Not necessarily you but the one who said we lack the courage of our convictions and don't really believe what we claim to believe.

I think you're reading more into that post than I intended. I'm not arguing that there is a God, I'm arguing that you can't really argue that it's 'logical' that God can't exist on the basis that he would have needed a creator ad infinitum when you simultaneously believe that the universe was...

Really? You're opening gambit is that agnostics are lying to themselves and they should really fall under believer or atheist. You then go on to accuse agnostics of being moral cowards by not having the courage of their convictions. That doesn't strike me as someone happy with agnosticism.

To all intents and purposes it did though. One minute there was nothing, then a big bang and then a universe. Something came from nothing.

I have the courage of my convictions. I must confess, I hadn't realised until now how much agnosticism annoys atheists but this thread is an eye-opener. I'm an agnostic and happy to admit it. I don't believe in an anthropomorphic deity but I don't rule out a force in the universe (cue Star Wars...

You say it's impossible for a creator to create itself but you're happy to accept a universe creating itself. Genuine question - what's the difference?

Agnostic is better. It's worth 11 pts in Scrabble compared with 10 for atheist.