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If your daughter's interested in history and hot countries then I reckon Malta is well worth a shout. Bloody hot, very family oriented, loads of history and fascinating mix of Arab and Christian cultures.

No matey. Not too far. Sadly the truth. I think you and I are very much of the same view on a lot of things and there's no way I'd go to Egypt now with my family and I think it's fair enough to explain why in those terms. Enjoy that beer!

International community = United Nations, is what I meant and not ordinary folk who I was referring to as 'us'. Apologies for sloppy wording, you're right 'elite' would have been better.

Can't come soon enough. I think though with increasing Russian and Chinese influence that the Saudis might have to start making concessions to the West for continued support. I hope so, anyway. The Chinese have taken a back seat seeing as it's mainly been a Western/Middle East phenomenon but...

Spot on. Until the Saudis are made a pariah state then we'll never crack Islamic terrorism. And sadly, the international community hasn't just turned a blind eye to it but with the UN putting Saudi Arabia on the committees for Human Rights and Women's Rights, they're blatantly taking the p*ss...

"Cultural racism", eh? As long as there's the word 'racism' in there I guess it does its job of stifling criticism of what is nothing more than a belief system.

It seems to be a very difficult concept for some people to get their heads around.

There were bombings practically every day in WWII and half the menfolk were abroad fighting Nazis so it was just another day to our grandparents. I don't want to treat the murder of children by terrorists as a normal and expected part of life in modern Britain.

Islam is just a belief system, the same as Christianity, Socialism or Existentialism. People should be free to say that they hate it without fear of getting into trouble with the police.

I reckon 1997 and the death of Princess Di was a defining moment.

I don't think it's me getting on any high horse.

That's a news report from last month. Is this the bit where you accuse us of hypocrisy because we didn't all comment on that particular atrocity? If so, why? I'm sure you're aware that the type of news that anyone will notice and be affected by will depend on proximity, personal connections and...

But isn't the mark of a democracy a free press? It seems he's damned for trying to control the press and then damned for not controlling it.

Remember: Goths die in hot cars.

I notice that you and a few others are mentioning Trump here but as much as I dislike him, I don't think he's directly culpable. He has zero influence over newspapers like the NY Times who are acting almost as opposition to him. The security services also aren't at his beck and call in the same...

I do hate it when these threads descend into whataboutery when the worst excesses of Islam/the Koran are discussed. Usually the Crusades is the go-to reference point but you've surpassed even that here. A word or two about the young ones who have died would be more appropriate and if you can't...