Quite. The tories were even more gung ho about backing 'our American friends'. Had Blair not joined in we would have absolutely had a tory government voted in next time for labour's 'shameless abandonment of our greatest ally'.
It wasn't undemocratic when we voted to join the EU using a 60:40 rubric. It was wise, and safeguarded. It is much more undemocratic to enact life-changing societal changes on a knife-edge 50:50 basis.If I remember correctly, the promise of a referendum was in the Conservative manifesto in 2015 before the general election … they cobbled it together to keep the right of the party in line pre election- labour SNP and liberal were all remain parties but somehow the tories won the election
And as for 60-40
Just because you approved of the 60-40 vote doesn’t make it right or democratic HWT
Supermajority votes arent undemocratic, they are widely used in Govermental/legislative/constituational scenarios.And as for 60-40
In situations where a super majority is required to change constitutional laws- not undemocraticSupermajority votes arent undemocratic, they are widely used in Govermental/legislative/constituational scenarios.
Supermajority - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Oh, don't get me wrong. I absolutely hate referenda. It is the last refuge of the charlatan politician, lacking the parliamentary support or powers of persuasion to enact a policy, reaching for the rabble to push it through. Having referenda is the worst form of political lunacy after having a dictatorship. Opinion poll politics.
I thought we joined Europe in 1973 …and then held a referendum in 1975 where you needed 60% to leave? If I’m wrong then I apologise but if I’m right that stinks
I could easily be wrong here (I am FAR too young, so wasn't alive let alone interested in politics then), but didn't the 1975 referendum just require a simple majority (though two thirds voted YES anyway)?
blogs.lse.ac.uk
I would be 'democratic'. Obviously it wouldnt if the goalposts changed after the event, but not if thats what was known beforehand.
We did. The referendum in 75 was to Remain or Leave. I'm not sure about the percentage needed but it was higher than 60% in any case.
When you look back on it, it is absolutely INSANE that something as complicated as leaving the EU was decided by the general public. I genuinely don't think I spoke to a single person at the time, leave or remain, who had a genuine, deep understanding of the inner working and the consequences of it. In fact, I'm not even sure I have since. Everyone thought they did, but very, very few people did. At the time, I was a fairly staunch Remainer, but was broadly in favour of the referendum because I thought Remain would win, but it would be close enough to make the EU shit themselves and make some serious reforms, before the whole thing fell apart.
I could easily be wrong here (I am FAR too young, so wasn't alive let alone interested in politics then), but didn't the 1975 referendum just require a simple majority (though two thirds voted YES anyway)?
EDIT: I just asked ChatGPT (so it could well still be wrong!):
No, the 1975 EU referendum in the UK did not require a super majority. The question posed to the electorate was whether the UK should remain part of the European Community (Common Market), which the UK had joined in 1973. The decision was based on a simple majority of the votes cast, and the outcome was a decisive "Yes" to remain, with 67.2% voting in favor and 32.8% voting against. There was no requirement for a super majority, which would have necessitated a higher threshold, such as two-thirds or three-quarters of the votes, to pass the decision.
FURTHER EDIT:
Some guy blogging on the LSE website agrees with ChatGPT that
"In the 1975 EEC referendum a simple majority was required"
The risks of simple majority referendums: learning from Quebec
Britain voted to leave the EU in a simple majority referendum. Gordon Bannerman (University of Guelph-Humber) argues that it would have done better to follow Canada’s example. After Quebec na…
100%
So Cameron actively thwarted an attempt to recreate the original legitimacy criteria (60%, and a minimum turnout) and insisted on a simple majority of votes cast?
No, that quote and the document linked to relates to the 1975 referendum. I've added a note to the post to make that clearer.So Cameron actively thwarted an attempt to recreate the original legitimacy criteria (60%, and a minimum turnout) and insisted on a simple majority of votes cast?
He's an even bigger arsehole than I thought
Precisely.
OK. So who decided on the simple majority rubric in 2018 (or whenever the Great Self-immolation took place - I'm trying to forget), and why did nobody insist on greater rigour?
