[Politics] Liz Truss RESIGNS 20/10/2022

Sid and the Sharknados · Apr 16, 2024

Weststander said:
It's just wrong that 81k people chose our PM, the position holds such importance and power.

This isn't a new sentiment, I remember Callaghan and Brown facing a furore too, also arrogantly swept aside.

I think we either have a representative democracy, and leave the MPs to it, or we should have a directly elected executive.
Having this weird halfway house where we elect MPs and then they subcontract the job of picking their leader to a tiny, self selected minority of the population feels like self-destructive nonsense.

I think referendums are bullshit for much the same reason.

Weststander · Apr 16, 2024

Sid and the Sharknados said:
I think we either have a representative democracy, and leave the MPs to it, or we should have a directly elected executive.
Having this weird halfway house where we elect MPs and then they subcontract the job of picking their leader to a tiny, self selected minority of the population feels like self-destructive nonsense.

I think referendums are bullshit for much the same reason.

I wouldn't want the whole (unwritten) Constitution ripped up, I like much of it.

Just two tweaks for me ... a mandatory general election if a change of PM and the end of an unelected chamber. With the latter, please no 'great and the good', that's so subjective and prone to manipulation by Labour/Tories.

Me Atome · Apr 16, 2024

Weststander said:
I wouldn't want the whole (unwritten) Constitution ripped up, I like much of it.

Just two tweaks for me ... a mandatory general election if a change of PM and the end of an unelected chamber. With the latter, please no 'great and the good', that's so subjective and prone to manipulation by Labour/Tories.

A new PM should not need a GE because we all voted for our local MP (did we not?) not for the person who we understood would be the PM; so the same government would remain. Also, the new PM should, in theory at least, still be acting in accordance with the party policies all as set out in the manifesto at the previous election. So again, no change should apply.

However, when there is a significant change of direction, as applied from Johnson to Truss, I would agree that a GE should be called. Although in theory, and as happened with Truss, the party might not support the actions of the new PM if he/she is not acting in accordance with what they consider is manifesto/party line. (Having said that, if we had gone straight from Johnson to Sunak, I'm not so sure.)

I recognise that once elected, governments (seem to) ignore what they put in their manifesto's*, but that's a separate discussion.

I strongly support an unelected chamber, but would agree there could be some discussion about from whom the members are selected.

* Is there a correct plural for manifesto? Manifetsa?

Sid and the Sharknados · Apr 16, 2024

Me Atome said:
I recognise that once elected, governments (seem to) ignore what they put in their manifesto's*, but that's a separate discussion.

* Is there a correct plural for manifesto? Manifetsa?

Whatever it is, it definitely won't have an apostrophe in it.

It is just manifestos, incidentally. Although after checking I've got jamais vu and I'm starting to doubt manifesto is a word at all.

A1X · Apr 16, 2024

The more she puts herself out there, the more we seem to have dodged a bullet by only being subjected to 7 weeks of her in charge

Does rather also shine a light on the calibre of decision making among the Tory membership

tedebear · Apr 16, 2024

The only thing I can give her credit for is not crawling away into a hole when her legacy will mostly be being outlasted by a lettuce...How do you live that down?

Cotton Socks · Apr 16, 2024

Guinness Boy said:
"I'll just get it up"

Not something she says too often I'll wager.

Depends what she ordered from the Anne Summers catalogue.

Motogull · Apr 16, 2024

I can't make out if she is either:

1. a proper mental case, or
2. on a Roy Hodgson style final stint at Palace 'destroy and exit' project.

Stat Brother · Apr 16, 2024

A1X said:
The more she puts herself out there, the more we seem to have dodged a bullet by only being subjected to 7 weeks of her in charge

Does rather also shine a light on the calibre of decision making among the Tory membership

It's a shame I'm still paying for that dodged bullet and will be for years to come.

Eric the meek · Apr 16, 2024

MJsGhost said:
Dunning-Kruger effect?

I know what you mean.

For those who haven't come across it before, the Dunning -Kruger effect is a cognitive bias, by which people of low competence in a particular task, overestimate their abilities. In that sense, it does appear to fit in that she comes across as absurdly over-confident in the face of spectacular failure.

But what else is going on, is a near congenital inability to countenance taking any blame for the consequences of her own actions. In that, she is world class.

Iggle Piggle · Apr 16, 2024

Motogull said:
I can't make out if she is either:

1. a proper mental case, or
2. on a Roy Hodgson style final stint at Palace 'destroy and exit' project.

Deffo 1. Total mental but with the unfortunate combination that she thinks she is brilliant.

drew · Apr 16, 2024

Unbelievable that someone who only came to power on the back of 60k tory member votes complains it's undemocratic for the 'establishment' to block her plans.

A cardboard cut out would be more intelligent than her on the basis that it wouldn't say it anything. She opens her mouth and garbage spues forth.

EDIT: Apologies, she had 81k votes.

Happy Exile · Apr 16, 2024

Iggle Piggle said:
Deffo 1. Total mental but with the unfortunate combination that she thinks she is brilliant.

And presumably funded by others too stupid to realise she isn't, and some clever enough to realise she's stupid and can be influenced and influence

Tubby Mondays · Apr 16, 2024

Just seen her contribution to the smoking debate today.

Apparently it’s not for government to legislate on such things individuals should be able to decide on what they do.

Fantastic!

I decide not to pay any tax or national insurance, drive my car whilst pissed out of my head and shoot former failed prime ministers who were in the post for less time than it takes to boil an egg.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 16, 2024

Sid and the Sharknados said:
I think we either have a representative democracy, and leave the MPs to it, or we should have a directly elected executive.
Having this weird halfway house where we elect MPs and then they subcontract the job of picking their leader to a tiny, self selected minority of the population feels like self-destructive nonsense.

I think referendums are bullshit for much the same reason.

I agree with you.

Back in the day the parliamentary parties selected the leaders. Then labour, and following that the tories opened the internal leadership franchise to members, citing fairness and democracy. I remember labour having a right old go at the tories for their leadership arrangements.

Personally I would rather the MPs elect their leader and the leader select their cabinet. And then the pipple can elect their MP in the hope their party might form a government.

Anyway, I though you were in favour of that even madder scheme where you vote for someone and someone else is handed the vote and you end up with an MP you have never heard of (PR)?

Me Atome said:
A new PM should not need a GE because we all voted for our local MP (did we not?) not for the person who we understood would be the PM; so the same government would remain. Also, the new PM should, in theory at least, still be acting in accordance with the party policies all as set out in the manifesto at the previous election. So again, no change should apply.

However, when there is a significant change of direction, as applied from Johnson to Truss, I would agree that a GE should be called. Although in theory, and as happened with Truss, the party might not support the actions of the new PM if he/she is not acting in accordance with what they consider is manifesto/party line. (Having said that, if we had gone straight from Johnson to Sunak, I'm not so sure.)

I recognise that once elected, governments (seem to) ignore what they put in their manifesto's*, but that's a separate discussion.

I strongly support an unelected chamber, but would agree there could be some discussion about from whom the members are selected.

* Is there a correct plural for manifesto? Manifetsa?

A very well considered line of reasoning :thumbsup:

Sid and the Sharknados · Apr 16, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I agree with you.

Validation!

I'm going to quit now at the summit. :lolol:

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Anyway, I though you were in favour of that even madder scheme where you vote for someone and someone else is handed the vote and you end up with an MP you have never heard of (PR)?

Nooo, I'm in favour of STV where you still vote for specific named candidates. And it magically "approximates" to PR. As an engineer, I'm well up for magic vague approximations.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 16, 2024

Sid and the Sharknados said:
Validation!
I'm going to quit now at the summit.

Nooo, I'm in favour of STV where you still vote for specific named candidates. And it magically "approximates" to PR. As an engineer, I'm well up for magic vague approximations.

You will need to engineer me more.

This machine is rusty and crusty. It's original purpose is long forgotten. Many of the large bits are not functioning well. Ironically some of the smaller parts are...well, you can guess the rest :wink:

zefarelly · Apr 16, 2024

tedebear said:
The only thing I can give her credit for is not crawling away into a hole when her legacy will mostly be being outlasted by a lettuce...How do you live that down?

View attachment 180672

And the hair, outwitted by a wig. I'm jealous of the lettuce hair!

I can live without the blue veg shoes.

Sid and the Sharknados · Apr 16, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
You will need to engineer me more.

This machine is rusty and crusty. It's original purpose is long forgotten. Many of the large bits are not functioning well. Ironically some of the smaller parts are...well, you can guess the rest

To be briefly serious, I hope your sciatica improves (that was you wasn't it? If not, just accept the general positive vibe). I was talking to somebody at work with it recently and it sounded bloody awful.

But to getting back to the real reason I'm here (that is, being fatuous and stupid) my suggestion as an engineer is total demolition and replacement. It's normally cheaper in the long run.

sparkie · Apr 17, 2024

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[Politics] Liz Truss RESIGNS 20/10/2022