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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel



Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
4,913
Mid Sussex
Zeberdi said:
just to clarify - and not trying to be patronising but there aren’t any Jewish settlers in Gaza - not since they were cleared in 2005 under Ariel Sharon’s Disengagement Policy of Gaza.

Every Country certainly doesn’t have an illegal occupying force attempting to annex land by killing innocent civilians and commandeering their homes. The settlers in the Occupied West Bank are not just ‘idiots’ ( they are) but they are also part of a concerted settlement expansion policy by the Netanyahu Government - no one will boot them out - least of all the current Israeli Government. It’s doubtful the Israeli Government will even concede any land claimed by the settlements in the West Bank as part of a peace plan either.

There seems to be quite an entrenched view in some quarters, that the West Bank is a legitimate part of Israel. I guess when a country has occupied land for a generation, built homes and set up businesses on it, it becomes harder to convince subsequent generations that this wasn’t their land in the first place 🤷🏻‍♂️
Click to expand...
You are correct and I’m wrong ( not for the first time and certainly not the last). I meant the West Bank.
 




Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
21,644
Brighton
Zeberdi said:
I’m not convinced Iran had hoped to achieve anything more than spread fear and terror of potential escalation with such a limited retaliation.
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From what I heard on the wireless (5Live) from a defensive expert, it seems Iran had given prior detailed warning on what was going to happen. The operation to bring down the weapons was vast, complex and needed a lot of organisation and planning to reach a success rate of 99%.

It’s probable that the allies knew how many weapons were being sent over, launch sites and launch times. Pretty smart by Iran and I’m convinced that they don’t want an escalation and were happy that there were no casualties that would have meant a military response was certain.

Note that the U.N, U.S and U.K are all calling for de-escalation. If the allies were not given hugely detailed forewarnings of this and there had been casualties, I suspect the U.S would be up for some revenge strikes on Iran.
 


H

Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,719
Hugo Rune said:
From what I heard on the wireless (5Live) from a defensive expert, it seems Iran had given prior detailed warning on what was going to happen. The operation to bring down the weapons was vast, complex and needed a lot of organisation and planning to reach a success rate of 99%.

It’s probable that the allies knew how many weapons were being sent over, launch sites and launch times. Pretty smart by Iran and I’m convinced that they don’t want an escalation and were happy that there were no casualties that would have meant a military response was certain.

Note that the U.N, U.S and U.K are all calling for de-escalation. If the allies were not given hugely detailed forewarnings of this and there had been casualties, I suspect the U.S would be up for some revenge strikes on Iran.
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Pretty much this. Iran had to be seen to be doing something, but they have no interest in starting a full scale war, Biden has no interest in one either. Israel get to claim the "win", Iran makes it point and I suspect that Netanyahu's conversations with Biden may become slightly more tetchy.

In other news, settler thugs continued to rampage through the West Bank and no-one bats an eyelid.
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,899
Hugo Rune said:
From what I heard on the wireless (5Live) from a defensive expert, it seems Iran had given prior detailed warning on what was going to happen. The operation to bring down the weapons was vast, complex and needed a lot of organisation and planning to reach a success rate of 99%.

It’s probable that the allies knew how many weapons were being sent over, launch sites and launch times. Pretty smart by Iran and I’m convinced that they don’t want an escalation and were happy that there were no casualties that would have meant a military response was certain.

Note that the U.N, U.S and U.K are all calling for de-escalation. If the allies were not given hugely detailed forewarnings of this and there had been casualties, I suspect the U.S would be up for some revenge strikes on Iran.
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Spot on - that was my thinking entirely.

Just hoping now that Israel doesn’t respond in attacking Iran directly - can’t see Netanyahu launching an open attack without the backing of the US but they may try the clandestine approach - so that’s something to keep an eye on. Iran will win this round imo, they forewarned, acted with restraint and given teeth to a deterrent should Isreal think of responding with a direct attack

Interesting articles

First - Israel’s ‘Shadow war’ with Iran - clandestine and not so clandestine

www.aljazeera.com

Bombs and viruses: The shadowy history of Israel’s attacks on Iranian soil

From cyberattacks and assassinations to drone strikes, Israel-linked plots have targeted Iran for years.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

And from the NYT - How Iran’s attack has changed the dynamics in the ME

 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,899
ISRAEL RESPONSE TO IRAN ATTACK

Israel has launched missile strikes on Iran in response to last Saturday’s attack.

www.aljazeera.com

Explosions reported as Iran activates air defence systems

Tensions have soared in the Middle East more than six months into Israel’s war on Gaza.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

news.sky.com

Middle East latest: Israel carries out operation in Iran, source says - as Iran fires its air defence systems

Iran's state-run IRNA news agency has said air defence batteries have been fired in several provinces; Israel carried out an operation in Iran tonight, a person familiar with the matter tells Sky News's US partner network NBC News.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

As I suggested back in October, Netanyahu is Israel’s biggest existential threat imo. I thought it likely that his ‘war on terror’ rhetoric against Hamas was a deliberate preparing of the way to broaden the conflict to Iran to neutralise Iran’s nuclear capabilities (after Trump tore up the Iran Nuclear Deal in 2018 undermining any chance of diplomatic resolutions in this situation) and this appears to be slowly unfolding as the months go by. Trump’s actions helped ensure that hardliners took over from moderates in Iran in response to the failure of the Nuclear Deal with the West) This is Bibi’s swan song now. He is clinging on to power by a thread - he has no choice but to stay on the back of the proverbial tiger or he will be politically ousted. He has no choice but to bait Iran into a wider conflict and continuing with his devastating war on Gaza, if he wants to survive - the far right Zionists in his cabinet forcing his hand. His efforts to hang on to power by relying on the coalition support of fascist extremists is leading Israel into a very dangerous direct conflict with Iran, and proxies in Syria, Lebanon and Yemen.

As far as ‘disarming‘ Israel to protect Gazans, Israel would be existentially vulnerable to the ‘Axis of Resistance’, more so now than ever before - Netanyahu has seen to that more than any other leader in Israel’s history. The West are hogtied by an alliance that is 75 years old but it is that alliance that is enabling Netanyahu to escalate and broaden the current conflict in the ME.
 
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Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,899
Both Israel and Iran now downplaying Israel’s attack last night suggesting that diplomacy in the region is having an impact on both Countries for the time being. A stepping back from the precipice for now or at least the rhetoric is less escalatory.
 


Boys 9d

Boys 9d

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2012
1,796
Lancing
I assume to show their neutrality the US and UK aircraft shot down some of the Israeli drones?
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,899




Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,321
Zeberdi said:
Both Israel and Iran now downplaying Israel’s attack last night suggesting that diplomacy in the region is having an impact on both Countries for the time being. A stepping back from the precipice for now or at least the rhetoric is less escalatory.
Click to expand...
You get the distinct feeling that both sides are now just lobbing symbolic gesture amounts of weaponry at each other. Middle East equivalent of opposing football fans luzzing rubber matting at each other in Brighton station. Long may it last 🤞
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,899
Tom Hark Preston Park said:
You get the distinct feeling that both sides are now just lobbing symbolic gesture amounts of weaponry at each other. Middle East equivalent of opposing football fans luzzing rubber matting at each other in Brighton station. Long may it last 🤞
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Yes, certainly seems like it - bizarre way to de-escalate - retaliate with less and less weapons until they stop - bit of a risky strategy though!
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
Zeberdi said:
There seems to be quite an entrenched view in some quarters, that the West Bank is a legitimate part of Israel. I guess when a country has occupied land for a generation, built homes and set up businesses on it, it becomes harder to convince subsequent generations that this wasn’t their land in the first place 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Like Russia occupying Ukraine, it should never be accepted.
 








Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,899
Well this is an interesting development and the first of its kind - Blinken said on Friday the US is considering imposing cuts to Israel’s orthodox fighting force that operates in the West Bank for violating human rights, which has the support of the Israeli Labour opposition leader who says they are ‘killing Palestinians for no real reason’ - now Netanyahu says he will ‘fight against any sanctions’

www.bbc.co.uk

US-Israel: Netanyahu to reject any sanctions on army units

Reports say the US is planning to cut military aid to one Israeli unit over alleged rights violations.
www.bbc.co.uk
www.aljazeera.com

US expected to sanction Israeli military unit over alleged rights abuses

Israeli prime minister says he will fight any sanctions targeting Israeli military units for alleged rights violations.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

It remains to be seen how Netanyahu thinks he can stop the US applying sanctions - the relationship is becoming decidedly scratchy - Blinken clearly thinks that the US not Netanyahu should be driving policy in the ME.
 




J

:J)

Active member
Jul 7, 2003
624
Brighton
Zeberdi said:
Well this is an interesting development and the first of its kind - Blinken said on Friday the US is considering imposing cuts to Israel’s orthodox fighting force that operates in the West Bank for violating human rights, which has the support of the Israeli Labour opposition leader who says they are ‘killing Palestinians for no real reason’ - now Netanyahu says he will ‘fight against any sanctions’

www.bbc.co.uk

US-Israel: Netanyahu to reject any sanctions on army units

Reports say the US is planning to cut military aid to one Israeli unit over alleged rights violations.
www.bbc.co.uk
www.aljazeera.com

US expected to sanction Israeli military unit over alleged rights abuses

Israeli prime minister says he will fight any sanctions targeting Israeli military units for alleged rights violations.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

It remains to be seen how Netanyahu thinks he can stop the US applying sanctions - the relationship is becoming decidedly scratchy - Blinken clearly thinks that the US not Netanyahu should be driving policy in the ME.
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We hear a lot about the US government's 'frustration' with Netanyahu but it doesn't prevent them sending weapons and ever increasing amounts of $$$ (a huge $26 million announced on Friday). It's just fiddling around the edges and not addressing the crucial problem... the US's continued funding of the onslaught.
Turn off the tap!
 


J

:J)

Active member
Jul 7, 2003
624
Brighton
Meanwhile mass graves have been discovered in the grounds of the Nasser Medical Centre in Khan Younis with over 180 bodies.

Here's Sky News reporter posting about it on X:


Expecting this to be headline news on all the channels, but...
Animated GIF
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,899
:J) said:
We hear a lot about the US government's 'frustration' with Netanyahu but it doesn't prevent them sending weapons and ever increasing amounts of $$$ (a huge $26 million announced on Friday). It's just fiddling around the edges and not addressing the crucial problem... the US's continued funding of the onslaught.
Turn off the tap!
Click to expand...
Yep - many people feel the same way tbh and in an ideal world maybe, if Israel was not also surrounded by Iran’s proxies that are ongoing threat to her security (and will be until the Palestinians have an independent State imo). Until then token gestures of sanctions are probably all we are going to get.

The US/UK still recognises Israel’s right to protect herself and supplying weapons has always been a part of that. There is a conflict of interest in the West in making Israel militarily weak. Israel’s allies are not going to leave Israel vulnerable to an existential attack from Iran and the axis of resistance.

Disarming Israel to the extent Netanyahu can’t continue with the war in Gaza isn’t a solution therefore. - Hamas still needs to be defeated (if not now, eventually) and Hezbollah are not going to stop lobbying missiles over the border unless there is a commitment by Israel to end the occupation of the Palestinian Territories.

A negotiated ceasefire, with the release of hostages, release of Palestinians being held in detention without trial and withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza is the only way forward I think - along with an immediate moratorium on settler expansion in the West Bank.

www.theguardian.com

Why do arms continue to flow from US to Israel despite ceasefire resolution?

Biden administration decision not to veto UN resolution does not signal major shift in foreign policy
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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