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[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
I’m anticipating they’ll be bits missing.You might want to check your order.
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(B&Q brought back 6013 results).
SeagullinExile
Well-known member
So the UK shot down some drones eh?
WTF? Israel doesn’t need our help. How about defending the people of Ukraine who actually need it?
It’s a disgrace. No military action by the UK in the Middle East will be in my name. None.
WTF? Israel doesn’t need our help. How about defending the people of Ukraine who actually need it?
It’s a disgrace. No military action by the UK in the Middle East will be in my name. None.
Not in my name either.
Every UK missile, shell, bullet, and litre of jet fuel needs to be conserved for protecting Ukraine from Russia.
Of course shooting down a drone which would have potentially otherwise killed someone has considerable merit which needs to be given proper consideration.
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,901
I agree with much of this - absolutely but I also think Iran are also fully aware of Israel’s defensive capabilities which came into their own last - particularly the so called ‘Iron Dome’ over Israel which can intercept many high arc flying rockets (especially the smaller short range rockets that have been launched by Hamas and Hezbollah) and it’s Arrow 3 system an incredibly advanced aerial defensive system (the first in the world) which can intercept ballistic missiles and other warheads at very short notice - I’m not convinced Iran had hoped to achieve anything more than spread fear and terror of potential escalation with such a limited retaliation.
There were probably points won on all sides last night
Iran's attack on Israel raises fears of a wider war, but all sides have also scored gains
The unprecedented attack by Iran on Israel early Sunday ratcheted up regional tensions. It confirmed long-held fears about the Israel-Hamas war spiraling into a broader conflagration.
apnews.com
The situation in Ukraine is appalling but I really wish people would stop seeing what is going on in the ME as a competition to see which is more worthy of our attention. Instability in Eastern Europe and the ME deeply concerns us all whether it be a fascist Israeli leader causing it or a Russian dictator.
This is a balanced view imo
Iran and Israel’s shadow war explodes into the open
But the Islamic Republic may have miscalculated
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If it's a world war, then by definition the entire world is involved. But the question was whether this is the start of it. If Russia starts losing badly in Ukraine, there is the possibility they would escalate the conflict.
It's a leap to think that the US will escalate to the extent that WW3 starts.
WW3 always starts with Iran vs others? That's a crazy statement.
I disagree. Israel do not threaten to use nuclear weapons to wipe out the whole world. While I'm against Israel's actions in Palestine, there are also differences between that and Russia's war against Ukraine:
Hamas (from Palestine) attacked Israel, killing about 1,200 people.
Hamas have stated that their goal is to remove Israel entirely.
Israel, for its part, has not said they want to take over the whole of Palestine.
Compare that with Russia/Ukraine.
Ukraine did not attack Russia, and were never going to attack Russia.
Ukraine has no intention of ever harming Russia.
Russia has stated that Ukraine has no right to exist, and intends to take the whole country for itself.
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- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,480
Israel always has, and always will do what is good for Israel.... it cares not for the toothless UN, it also cares not whether Iran or any of it's terrorist proxies attempt more of these attacks, Israel will deliver retribution at the time of its choosing.
Irans attack last night was an abject failure, Iran and it's allies are only mildly successful when it bombs or kidnaps civilians or military personnel in cowardly attacks in public places.... it presents itself as a serious military entity... take that brave attack on those very dangerous Philippino sailors the other day,... what a courageous attack that was.
Israel could, with a bit of effort, defeat Iran without putting a single boot on Iranian soil if it so desires, but Israel also, does not want to destroy anyone, they just want to live in peace.... but sadly, the militant Islamic world are not interested in peace.... just the annihilation of the nation of Israel and all it's Jewish citizens.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,901
- Israel is threatening to attack Iran - has done for years - Israel is a nuclear power and has on more than one occasion in the past threatened Iran with nuclear strikes - that will almost certainly trigger a worldwide conflict.
Israel threatened to launch nuclear war on Iran - UN envoy
During his UNGA speech, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asserted that “Iran must face a credible nuclear threat,” a statement the PMO later retracted.
www.jpost.com
Russia has made threats of using strategic nuclear weapons but it is a ridiculously hyperbolic response to say these have been against the ‘whole world’ or are a threat of intercontinental nuclear war. China and Iran, two major powers aligned to Russia and India are also an allies so certainly wouldn’t be included. Russia may have made nuclear threats but it’s been largely bluster and threats of nuclear strikes if NATO forces attack Russia and are an existential threat to Russia. The US and UK have the same longstanding threat if Russia attacks the US/Nato with nuclear weapons - it’s call MAD (for a reason)
It’s laughable that anyone could think Hamas was capable of ‘removing’ Israel ‘entirely’ - but yes, prior to 1987 the Hamas Charter was to destroy Israel that became somewhat modified in 2017 when Hamas declared an acceptance of the creation of a Palestinian state along the 1967 lines ie for Isreal to be confined to the original 1947 borders drawn up by the Balfour partition.
Doctrine of Hamas
In the context of current events in Gaza, their goal has been to get Israel out of Gaza, release Palestinians held (illegally ) in detention in Israel, including children, to allow free movement of Palestinians in Gaza and for them to return to their homes. I haven’t heard Hamas leaders say they want to remove ‘Israel entirely’ from the ME recently but even if they have, who is closer to achieving their elimination objectives? Hamas destroying the State of Israel or Netanyahu destroying Gaza and pushing an entire population into starvation or bombing them to death?
Netanyahu has certainly said Palestinians should be ‘evacuated’ from Gaza and Palestine should be a part of Israel - that is the policy of the Lukid Party and has been for years. It is the policy of the Israeli Ambassador to the UK too, it was the policy of Trump.
Not sure what this has to do with what I said, it does not make Netanyahu any less a threat to world peace or danger to the Palestinian people.
I think you need to do a bit more background reading on Netanyahu and the Religious Zionists he is in bed with tbh - he has unequivocally stated that Palestine has no right to exist and intends to claim the occupied territories into a Greater Israel - Trump’s Peace Plan went some way to beginning that process.
This isn’t a competition and I refuse to argue it as one. Both Putin and Netanyahu are extremely objectionable characters capable of leading Europe and the ME into a global conflict - they are both expansionists and extremists and are threatening their neighbours with genocidal impacts which in turn could trigger what people love to refer to as ‘WW3’.
aolstudios
Well-known member
Excellent summary
aolstudios
Well-known member
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,901
57 years of oppressive and illegal occupation, apartheid policies, expansionist settlements and violence perpetrated against Palestinians living in the way; now bombing Gaza back into the stone-age, killing 17, 000 Sunni Muslim women and children, destroying mosques, hospitals, schools, bombing refugee camps, pushing 1.1 million people onto the brink of starvation, refusing to allow aid in, killing aid workers, journalists, UN workers, Medicin Sans Frontier staff even babies in incubators - all this is Netanyahu’s way of showing ‘they just want to live in peace”?
Hardly.
Who do you think was behind the murder of Yiksak Rabin, and tried to blow the Oslo Accords out the water? Who has carried out repeated punishment rocket attacks on civilians, illegally held children in detention, carried out torture/punishment beatings and generally made life unbearable for Palestinians in the land they rightly live on? Who do you think armed Hamas to prevent a peace deal ever becoming a reality. Who made a deal with Trump to acquire a third of the West Bank? Swore Palestinians would never be free?
There are extremists and war criminals on all sides in this sorry conflict with innocent civilians as alway caught in the middle so Israel have made their point - bombing the Iranian Embassy was rightly seen as an attack on Iran - Iran have relaliated. Netanyahu now needs to deescalate the situation. agree to a ceasefire in Gaza to allow full aid and medical releif in and agree to a process of peace that will grant freedom to the Palestinian people. It’s in his hands.
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The west need to stop arming him.
I said at the beginning of the Ukraine war that the UK and NATO should have put boots on the ground (although if rumours are correct UK Special Forces are there helping Ukraine). Afterall, this is the defence of Europe. The war could have well have ended by now if NATO hadn't been so cowardly.
You mean apart from at least a couple of Israeli government ministers who have stated publically that they want all Palestinians to leave Gaza so Israelis can settle there ( and I would guess there are other minsters who support this views but won't state it in public ) ? Or indeed the Jewish settlers who want all Palestinians to leave the West Bank and are using murder, violence and intimidation to achieve said aim ? Brings a slightly different meaning to the phrase "from the river to the sea".
- Israel is threatening to attack Iran - has done for years - Israel is a nuclear power and has on more than one occasion in the past threatened Iran with nuclear strikes - that will almost certainly trigger a worldwide conflict.
Israel threatened to launch nuclear war on Iran - UN envoy
During his UNGA speech, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asserted that “Iran must face a credible nuclear threat,” a statement the PMO later retracted.
In that example, they said "Iran must face a credible nuclear threat”. That in itself is like the US and UK's MAD position regarding Russia et al. We have no intention of nuking Russia or anywhere else, but the threat is there should they use nukes first. Also, Israel responded to the criticism saying they meant to say 'military threat'. While that's clumsy at best and possibly disingenuous, it is black and white different to Russia's threats. Russia has actually threatened to destroy Ireland and UK with a Sarmat nuclear weapon, just for supplying arms to Ukraine, and that's the tip of the Russian rhetoric iceberg.
Wrong.
They wouldn't be targeted by Russia, but if Russia started a nuclear war with the West, there would obviously be a response, and nowhere would escape nuclear fallout.
No, Russia's threats have not been limited to if NATO forces attack Russia (which I'm sure you know).
Yes I know what it is, but the West are not threatening to use nuclear weapons, whereas Russia has been.
The fact that they're not capable is not the point. The point is that that is their current stated goal, and they did attack Israel. What exactly did Ukraine do to justify Russia's invasion?
That's not to say that Israel's actions are justified, but you can at least see that Israel have been threatened and attacked, whereas Russia hasn't.
Some here consider that the conflict between Israel and Iran/Palestine is more likely to lead to WW3 than Putin's attack on Ukraine. I disagree. Let's hope we don't find out.
It is Russian policy to take over the whole of Ukraine.
I don't think that it's Israel's policy to take over the whole of Palestine (feel free to provide a link if it is).
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,901
He’s made that impossible at the moment unfortunately for Gazans - Israel is now vulnerable in a way it wasn’t a few weeks ago - Attacking an Embassy (which are regarded as sovereign territory) is an attack on the Country to whom it belongs. Iran had every right to respond, when Israel bombed their embassy in Damascus and killing embassy staffers. There has been a seismic shift in the ME and after years of proxy wars between Iran and Israel, the gloves came off last night when Iran responded by firing 300 drones and missiles into Israel. Exactly what Netanyahu wanted IMO.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,901
Wrong - I have posted numerous information in this thread to this effects with plenty of source material to back it up.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,901
Then that’s not Russia threatening to launch a nuclear strike against the whole world then is it - honestly what a ridiculous discussion as is all this fear mongering about Russia nuking the UK etc - it has been either media speculation by ‘experts’ or said by individual hawkisk Russian officials such as Medvedev who is largely lampooned for his continuous calls of wolf and rather isolated in his rhetoric - so far any threats to use even limited strategic nuclear strikes in Ukraine have not materialised. I am not saying there is not a risk, of course there is but for heaven sake don’t be so susceptible to bluff and propoganda.
Russia’s Medvedev threatens to nuke US, UK, Germany, Ukraine if Russia loses occupied territories
"Attempts to restore Russia's 1991 borders will lead only to one thing - a global war with Western countries with the use of our entire strategic (nuclear) arsenal against Kyiv, Berlin, London, and Washington. And against all other beautiful historic places that have long been included in the...
kyivindependent.com
Please also stop comparing Russia’s war on Ukraine with Israel’s war on Gaza/ME - seriously what on earth is the point? Both situations threaten serious regional escalation and global instability - especially if Israel as promised by Netanyahu carries out his threats of using nuclear weapons against Iran and Iran continue to develop their own.
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