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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



R

rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,580
Thunder Bolt said:
It is believed two of the 12 MPs also sent pictures. This is the MP who called the National Trust 'woke'.

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Why hasn't he been sacked? He should have been booted out by now.

I'm sure there will now be a lengthy internal enquiry that will drag on until the GE when he will stand down to "spend more time with his family" so he can claim his "leaving Parliament" bonus.

ETA You would like to think that people who are elected to Parliament have a modicom of common sense. How desperate have you got to be to fall for a scam like this? It's the bloody internet! "Trust Nobody. Believe Nothing".....and you won't go too far wrong.
 




Bob!

Bob!

Coffee Buyer
Jul 5, 2003
11,141
rippleman said:
Why hasn't he been sacked? He should have been booted out by now.

I'm sure there will now be a lengthy internal enquiry that will drag on until the GE when he will stand down to "spend more time with his family" so he can claim his "leaving Parliament" bonus.

ETA You would like to think that people who are elected to Parliament have a modicom of common sense. How desperate have you got to be to fall for a scam like this? It's the bloody internet! "Trust Nobody. Believe Nothing".....and you won't go too far wrong.
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It is obviously standard behaviour in the Tory party.
 




S

Since1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2006
1,495
Burgess Hill
Just when you think they have sunk to the lowest they can go, they find another level. I cannot imagine any other organisation where admitting to sharing the personal details of colleagues to a sexually motivated, presumably anonymous, contact would not result in immediate dismissal.
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,341
Uffern
Kinky Gerbil said:
Should be sacked on the spot.
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Why does this keep coming up? (sigh). Governments can't sack an MP, it can sack a minister ... but Wragg's not a minister. His constituency party could deselect him but as he's not standing again, that's not really relevant. He can, of course, have the whip withdrawn but I suspect that may lead to questions as to who the other two MPs are and why are they free of any sanctions.

If there's a police action and he's sentenced to a prison term or if he's suspended from parliament for more than 30 days, then his constituency could call for a new election but, as he's not standing, that's not going to happen.
 






R

rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,580
Hugo Rune said:
He has apologised. That is all it takes to get off the hook with this lot. Jeremy C Hunt has praised him as courageous.
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That's UK politics under the Tories.

You can be a racist, mysoginist, a grubby perv providing sensitive security data to people or persons unknown, but as long as you say "sorry" all is well with the world.

www.bbc.co.uk

William Wragg: Jeremy Hunt praises MP's apology over dating app incident

The chancellor says William Wragg showed courage in admitting he gave out MPs' phone numbers.
www.bbc.co.uk
 


Audax

Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,947
Uckfield
Since1982 said:
Just when you think they have sunk to the lowest they can go, they find another level. I cannot imagine any other organisation where admitting to sharing the personal details of colleagues to a sexually motivated, presumably anonymous, contact would not result in immediate dismissal.
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Indeed. This would almost certainly be an instant gross misconduct suspension pending investigation and hearing that would almost certainly result in dismissal in the vast majority of private companies. Especially given a private company would be facing up to having to report the data breach to the ICO and therefore potentially huge fines.

Gwylan said:
Why does this keep coming up? (sigh). Governments can't sack an MP, it can sack a minister ... but Wragg's not a minister. His constituency party could deselect him but as he's not standing again, that's not really relevant. He can, of course, have the whip withdrawn but I suspect that may lead to questions as to who the other two MPs are and why are they free of any sanctions.

If there's a police action and he's sentenced to a prison term or if he's suspended from parliament for more than 30 days, then his constituency could call for a new election but, as he's not standing, that's not going to happen.
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It's not about what the rules stipulate as written today (rules written by the MPs and/or those the MPs appoint). It's about what *should* happen. IMO an MP should be held to higher standards than your average person on the street. Let's face, what this MP has admitted to is an absolute howler and (so far) we as a country are very, very lucky to have got away with it. This could have been far worse. There could and should be parliamentary rules and processes in place that enable the immediate removal (either temporarily or permanently) of MPs who have shown a disregard for rules, procedures, laws, and basic common sense to such an extent that it poses risk others.

In this particular case, an MP should have a very, very thorough understanding of data protection laws and face significant consequences should they breach them. An apology is simply not enough IMO. This MP has shown that he is not fit to be an MP.
 




G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,341
Uffern
Audax said:
It's not about what the rules stipulate as written today (rules written by the MPs and/or those the MPs appoint). It's about what *should* happen. IMO an MP should be held to higher standards than your average person on the street. Let's face, what this MP has admitted to is an absolute howler and (so far) we as a country are very, very lucky to have got away with it. This could have been far worse. There could and should be parliamentary rules and processes in place that enable the immediate removal (either temporarily or permanently) of MPs who have shown a disregard for rules, procedures, laws, and basic common sense to such an extent that it poses risk others.

In this particular case, an MP should have a very, very thorough understanding of data protection laws and face significant consequences should they breach them. An apology is simply not enough IMO. This MP has shown that he is not fit to be an MP.
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I disagree. MPs are representatives of the people - even the Acts relevant to Parliament, MPs and voting are known as Representation of the People Acts. If the people elect MPs they, and only they, have the right to remove them. What you're proposing is the first step towards dictatorship where governments can remove those politicians they don't like. Wragg behaved like an idiot and it's possible that he broke the law (and as such, should face the consequences) but when governments start removing politicians they don't like, we're heading into dangerous waters.
 
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Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,538
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Gwylan said:
I disagree. MPs are representatives of the people - even the Acts relevant to Parliament, MPs and voting are known as Representation of the People Acts. If the people elect MPs they, and only they, have the right to remove them. What you're proposing is the first step towards dictatorship where governments can remove those politicians they don't like. Wragg behaved like an idiot and it's possible that he broke the law (and as such, should face the consequences) but when governments start removing politicians they don't like, we're heading into dangerous waters.
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There are standards that MPs are expected to keep, which is why Boris Johnson is still suspended from Parliament for 90 days. Governments can't sack them but the Parliamentary Standards Committee can hold them to account.
Wragg has opened himself up to blackmail, and dragged other MPs into the same security risk.
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,341
Uffern
Thunder Bolt said:
There are standards that MPs are expected to keep, which is why Boris Johnson is still suspended from Parliament for 90 days. Governments can't sack them but the Parliamentary Standards Committee can hold them to account.
Wragg has opened himself up to blackmail, and dragged other MPs into the same security risk.
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Yep, and if the MP gets such a suspension then his constituency can set up a recall petition asking for him to be sacked. But the point is that it's his or her constituency that does this, not parliament. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be suspended (in fact, I think he should) but there is due process to be followed.
 




C

Cheggers

Active member
Jul 28, 2011
217
Bang! And the dirt is gone.
clapham_gull said:
I'm a great fan of Karl Marx, his critique of capitalism is second to none, but he had a difficult second album. Those who still think his niche second album was the greatest album ever produced are the far left. Like those odd Queen fans who think Hot Space was their greatest work.

I'm not on here to be helpful to you. If you confront the issue first, it's easy to find what you require. I suggest you help yourself.

The deflection is actually Corbyn. Left wing politics has a long history of antisemitism, something it has failed to truly embrace. The failure to embrace it has led the right of politics (which has a more obvious history) to take the moral high ground. Something that should be deeply embarresing.

Why view point doesn't make me right wing, a "centrist" a Blairite or fan of Starmer, it just makes me a realist.
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Apologies for my ignorance. And I am genuinely not being facetious, but when you say Marx's 'difficult second album', are you referring to Capital: Volume 1 as his first album (or The Communist Manifesto)? And if so, are you referring to Capital: Volume 2 as his second album, or the Economic & Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 (published posthumously), or another of his works?
 


Audax

Audax

Boing boing boing...
Aug 3, 2015
2,947
Uckfield
Gwylan said:
Yep, and if the MP gets such a suspension then his constituency can set up a recall petition asking for him to be sacked. But the point is that it's his or her constituency that does this, not parliament. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be suspended (in fact, I think he should) but there is due process to be followed.
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I don't disagree with you. I think where we differ is in how fast the current processes operate. It could take months before a recall petition can be triggered under the current procedures, and that IMO is no where near good enough. It's also still possible (despite Boris' fumbling failed attempts) for a government with a big enough majority to simply ignore it all and prevent the recall petition being triggerable (ie by blocking any recommended suspension that would trigger).

In instances like this, IMO there needs to be a fast-track process that a) accelerates suspension, and b) independently of the government facilitates speedy investigation and, if required, enabling action by voters to evict the MP.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,538
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Audax said:
I don't disagree with you. I think where we differ is in how fast the current processes operate. It could take months before a recall petition can be triggered under the current procedures, and that IMO is no where near good enough. It's also still possible (despite Boris' fumbling failed attempts) for a government with a big enough majority to simply ignore it all and prevent the recall petition being triggerable (ie by blocking any recommended suspension that would trigger).

In instances like this, IMO there needs to be a fast-track process that a) accelerates suspension, and b) independently of the government facilitates speedy investigation and, if required, enabling action by voters to evict the MP.
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I'm not so bothered about the recall from his constituency, but the blackmail element, where he has already compromised at least two other MPs, and yet still has access to Parliamentary documents. It is a major security risk.
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,538
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Just another fake photo from the Tory candidate for London Mayor.




The link from March where Sadiq Khan is on record as ruling it out.
www.bbc.co.uk

London Mayor Sadiq Khan rules out Ulez changes

Sadiq Khan says Ulez will not include pay-per-mile charges or tighter restrictions while he is mayor.
www.bbc.co.uk
 




M

monty uk

Well-known member
Sep 25, 2018
631
Hugo Rune said:
He has apologised. That is all it takes to get off the hook with this lot. Jeremy C Hunt has praised him as courageous.
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But when would this become a criminal act of aiding and abetting? Isn't that effectively what he has done by knowingly and voluntarily providing target names and phone numbers to criminal gangs?
 






T

TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
11,539
William Wragg, the MP who admitted sharing MPs' personal phone numbers with someone on a dating app, has "voluntarily" given up the Conservative whip.

He will now sit as an independent MP in the House of Commons.
 




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