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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)







Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,347
As the west continues to wake up to what Russia has been doing for decades, I guess we should expect more of these revelations.

Interference in elections, referendums, politicians on the payroll etc.

www.bbc.co.uk

Russian network that 'paid European politicians' busted, authorities claim

Polish and Czech police say network used Russian money and popular website to push anti-Ukraine narratives.
www.bbc.co.uk
 


R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,672
Wiltshire
Eric the meek said:
As the west continues to wake up to what Russia has been doing for decades, I guess we should expect more of these revelations.

Interference in elections, referendums, politicians on the payroll etc.

www.bbc.co.uk

Russian network that 'paid European politicians' busted, authorities claim

Polish and Czech police say network used Russian money and popular website to push anti-Ukraine narratives.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
There are always some that will take the money... no matter the reason.
 




peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,366
Have to invade because Russian language banned they said.

Need to liberate Russian speakers they said.

The Ukrainains were the real Nazis they said.

 




Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,347
Is this a glimpse into the future?

If you take the view, that these state TV talk shows are carefully choreographed and scripted, and are the voice of the Kremlin to the Russian masses, then yes, it is.

 


R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,672
Wiltshire
Eric the meek said:
Is this a glimpse into the future?

If you take the view, that these state TV talk shows are carefully choreographed and scripted, and are the voice of the Kremlin to the Russian masses, then yes, it is.

Click to expand...

Europe (including UK) needs to be prepared to defend itself, all of its countries, against Russian aggression, even if the US pulled out of NATO.
 


R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,672
Wiltshire
peterward said:
Have to invade because Russian language banned they said.

Need to liberate Russian speakers they said.

The Ukrainains were the real Nazis they said.

Click to expand...

I would hope that US/NATO has already told Russia that it's 'game over ' if they did that.

Edit: I've just read further down the Julia Davis twitter feed... blimey, all the 'contributors ' of the past 24 hours are at it. If this is how Russia now 'leads' it's people, it really didn't need to let ISIS K kill about 200 of them, did it 🤷🏼‍♂️.
 
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chickens

chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
Oct 12, 2022
1,872
We are so dumb to be holding anything back that could help Ukraine win this war, my concern is that America just sees this as a weapons sales opportunity and doesn’t really care as to whether Ukraine wins or not.

I do fear a rerun of WW2, let’s not rely on America for armaments or ammo. We haven’t paid them off from last time. Time to build up our stocks and supplies and provide Ukraine with what they need.
 




Sid and the Sharknados

Sid and the Sharknados

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Sep 4, 2022
4,100
Darlington
chickens said:
We are so dumb to be holding anything back that could help Ukraine win this war, my concern is that America just sees this as a weapons sales opportunity and doesn’t really care as to whether Ukraine wins or not.

I do fear a rerun of WW2, let’s not rely on America for armaments or ammo. We haven’t paid them off from last time. Time to build up our stocks and supplies and provide Ukraine with what they need.
Click to expand...
Small point of detail, we finished paying off the war debt to the USA in 2006.
I agree with the broader point that we and the rest of Europe should invest more in defence than we have done and do.
 




M

Me Atome

Member
Mar 10, 2024
43
Sid and the Sharknados said:
Small point of detail, we finished paying off the war debt to the USA in 2006.
I agree with the broader point that we and the rest of Europe should invest more in defence than we have done and do.
Click to expand...
I agree with the theory, but where would you get the money from? Raise taxes or reduce spending on something else? Cutting waste would be a good start, but good luck with that!
 




Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
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Aug 24, 2020
5,347
@raymondo, remember we were discussing drones a few days ago? How they were so accurate after such a long trip?

Well, here are the answers we were looking for.

Here is Peter Zeihan, talking about drones, and in particular the American Phoenix Ghost drones that Ukraine is using to take out the oil refineries. The relevant part is from 4:00 onwards, but listen to all of it if you can. Be sure to catch the last 30 seconds.

 




R

raymondo

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2017
5,672
Wiltshire
Eric the meek said:
@raymondo, remember we were discussing drones a few days ago? How they were so accurate after such a long trip?

Well, here are the answers we were looking for.

Here is Peter Zeihan, talking about drones, and in particular the American Phoenix Ghost drones that Ukraine is using to take out the oil refineries. The relevant part is from 4:00 onwards, but listen to all of it if you can. Be sure to catch the last 30 seconds.

Click to expand...

That was really excellent thanks. He's a very engaging speaker, and I enjoy seeing (I'm sure you do too!!) the scenic backgrounds of his walks.
The US won't be happy if their ghost drones are being used to attack the refineries...but needs must 😁.
 


Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,347
raymondo said:
That was really excellent thanks. He's a very engaging speaker, and I enjoy seeing (I'm sure you do too!!) the scenic backgrounds of his walks.
The US won't be happy if their ghost drones are being used to attack the refineries...but needs must 😁.
Click to expand...
I really hope he's correct in claiming Russia doesn't have enough engineers to a) repair the oil refineries and b) turn production back on when they're fixed, as all the engineers are on the front line.

I wonder if Ukraine has got a mechanism for determining the throughput of each of Russia's oil refineries? :unsure: They wouldn't want Russia to sneak through a repair undetected.
 


C

crookie

Well-known member
Jun 14, 2013
3,312
Back in Sussex
chickens said:
We are so dumb to be holding anything back that could help Ukraine win this war, my concern is that America just sees this as a weapons sales opportunity and doesn’t really care as to whether Ukraine wins or not.

I do fear a rerun of WW2, let’s not rely on America for armaments or ammo. We haven’t paid them off from last time. Time to build up our stocks and supplies and provide Ukraine with what they need.
Click to expand...
I posted a year ago exactly this. Europe should be giving all they've got to Ukraine. They are the front line, and they've willing soldiers. If they fall, we're all vulnerable to Russia's next move. They need to be defeated here, and their conventional capabilities set back decades. Ukraine has the people and the motivation, they just need the weapons. Give them everything and worry about rearming afterwards
 


peterward

peterward

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Nov 11, 2009
11,366
Eric the meek said:
@raymondo, remember we were discussing drones a few days ago? How they were so accurate after such a long trip?

Well, here are the answers we were looking for.

Here is Peter Zeihan, talking about drones, and in particular the American Phoenix Ghost drones that Ukraine is using to take out the oil refineries. The relevant part is from 4:00 onwards, but listen to all of it if you can. Be sure to catch the last 30 seconds.

Click to expand...

Very interesting mate. Watched it all. I wonder if the Ukrainains sort approval for Phoenix Ghost, if that's what it was.

But they really should continue this strategy imho. Cut the source of money and the Russian effort collapses.
 




Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
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Aug 24, 2020
5,347
crookie said:
I posted a year ago exactly this. Europe should be giving all they've got to Ukraine. They are the front line, and they've willing soldiers. If they fall, we're all vulnerable to Russia's next move. They need to be defeated here, and their conventional capabilities set back decades. Ukraine has the people and the motivation, they just need the weapons. Give them everything and worry about rearming afterwards
Click to expand...
And Russia knows that, and will take full advantage to unsettle any and all adversaries, just for fun. They will threaten and torment. That's what they do.
It's what defines them. It's what isolates them. That's not a strength. That's a weakness.

I wonder, with the benefit of hindsight, if being deprived of ammunition, has actually changed the war for Ukraine, and changed their prospects. They have had to retreat from Avdiivka to save lives. But they've lost just 200 square miles. That's half the size of Rutland.

War is the father of invention. Being deprived of ammunition has led to them opening up a new front out - the use of drones to target Russia's oil refining capacity. This seems to be a master stroke, to which Russia - at the moment - doesn't seem to have an answer. Would this have happened if they had sufficient ammunition?

To be clear, I'm not advocating depriving Ukraine of any more ammunition though. Give them what they need.
 


Eric the meek

Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
NSC Patron
Aug 24, 2020
5,347
peterward said:
Very interesting mate. Watched it all. I wonder if the Ukrainains sort approval for Phoenix Ghost, if that's what it was.

But they really should continue this strategy imho. Cut the source of money and the Russian effort collapses.
Click to expand...
I can see the Americans putting conditions on the use of their drones, but I can also see the Ukrainians ignoring those conditions. This is what could affect the supply of further Phoenix Ghost drones.

You can't fault the strategy of Ukraine. Let's hope Russia doesn't find a way round having no money to pay for more weapons - with the use of threats, blackmail, strong arm tactics etc. I understand that when they imported gasoline from Belarus, to keep the show on the road, 'talks were difficult'. This is a good sign. It will have poisoned the well of trust and goodwill.
 


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