Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Register Log in

[News] Hamas/Gaza/Israel



Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,882
aolstudios said:
I've pretty much given up on commenting on this thread, among various others whose views are broadly similar, as when we do the same bunch of members pile on & scream at/lecture us. I don't have the time, energy, or in certain members cases, the faith that they're posting in good faith to spend most of my days arguing my way out of a pile on. Our view on this thread is a minority one (or maybe we don't scream so loud?) but that doesn't make it wrong. If anybody sincerely wants to chat about the situation privately, feel free.
Click to expand...
My post was hardly a pile on - was just to reiterate that commenting on and condemning the mass slaughter of Palestinians is NOT mutually exclusive of also condemning the mass slaughter of Israeli civilians on 7/10.

You seem to want to try and polarise the discussion as if those appalled at the treatment of civilians in Gaza were not also appalled by the slaughter of Israeli civilians in October. That is insulting and suggests we are heartless monsters.

Must every comment have a perpetual addendum attached - ’The writer of this post condemns without qualification the massacre carried out by Hamas”. Can you not assume we do?

If you want to raise ongoing issues about Israeli victims/hostages then do so - no one has a problem with that. But stop using the massacre to make repeated digs at those highlighting what is happening to civilians in Gaza because it is you coming across with having an agenda or posting in bad faith frankly..

And btw, If you read my post again, all of it was relating to the situation with hostages and how awful it is for their families and friends. It didn’t deserve the response from you it got.🙁
 




aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,531
brighton
Zeberdi said:
My post was hardly a pile on - was just to reiterate that commenting on and condemning the mass slaughter of Palestinians is NOT mutually exclusive of also condemning the mass slaughter of Israeli civilians on 7/10.

You seem to want to try and polarise the discussion as if those appalled at the treatment of civilians in Gaza were not also appalled by the slaughter of Israeli civilians in October. That is insulting and suggests we are heartless monsters.

Must every comment have a perpetual addendum attached - ’The writer of this post condemns without qualification the massacre carried out by Hamas”. Can you not assume we do?

If you want to raise ongoing issues about Israeli victims/hostages then do so - no one has a problem with that. But stop using the massacre to make repeated digs at those highlighting what is happening to civilians in Gaza because it is you coming across with having an agenda or posting in bad faith frankly..

And btw, If you read my post again, all of it was relating to the situation with hostages and how awful it is for their families and friends. It didn’t deserve the response from you it got.🙁
Click to expand...
I wasn't responding to or referring to your post
 


nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,611
Gods country fortnightly
  • Like
Reactions: :J)


A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,873
Deepest, darkest Sussex
nicko31 said:
Again the Tories only believe in freedom of expression if it’s in agreement with them.

Still can’t believe Sunak did that address last Friday, he’s so desperate
Click to expand...
It genuinely wouldn’t be the huge shock to me it might once have seemed for this to be a start of a “too dangerous, no election” putsch
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,034
The arse end of Hangleton
aolstudios said:
I've pretty much given up on commenting on this thread, among various others whose views are broadly similar, as when we do the same bunch of members pile on & scream at/lecture us. I don't have the time, energy, or in certain members cases, the faith that they're posting in good faith to spend most of my days arguing my way out of a pile on. Our view on this thread is a minority one (or maybe we don't scream so loud?) but that doesn't make it wrong. If anybody sincerely wants to chat about the situation privately, feel free.
Click to expand...
Your view is a minority one because most decent humans don't want babies or innocent civilians starving to death. Sadly it appears it is what the IDF want.

www.bbc.co.uk

World Food Programme says northern Gaza aid convoy blocked

The UN agency says Israeli forces turned back a convoy of 14 lorries taking aid to northern Gaza.
www.bbc.co.uk
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,611
Gods country fortnightly


F

FIVESTEPS

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2014
357
Watched the interview with an Hamas leader based in Iran on Channel 4 news,what came across was peace talks are highly unlikely to be successful.He viewed the peace protests as a vindication of there actions and that the vast majority where on there side.It was on Monday at 7 worth a look for Hama's viewpoint.This isn't my endorsement of Hamas in case any one thinks so.
 
Last edited:


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,882
Good news for Gazan civilians on the brink of famine - another sign in recent days that the Biden administration is becoming increasingly unsympathetic to Netanyahu’s throttlehold on aid deliveries into Gaza. Combined with a notable change on the tone of the US when dealing with Netanyahu’s intransigence and the US (and now Uk too) now showing a desire to work with the Israeli opposition leader, things could improve for Gaza. I would like to say this is because the Biden Administration has had an humanitarian epiphany but it is far more likely that the withholding of Democratic support for Biden in the Primaries has had more to do with it. Maybe the Rochdale bi-election result might invigorate more support for a humanitarian ceasefire and getting more aid in from the UK Government too?

www.bbc.co.uk

US to set up temporary port on Gaza coast for aid delivery

In his speech to Congress, President Biden will say a temporary pier will transport supplies from ships to the shore.
www.bbc.co.uk
 






Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,882
UPDATE

The UN Security Council finally has passed a resolution for a ceasefire (until the end of Ramadan) to get aid into Gaza - The UK supported it and while the US did not vote for it, it did not veto it either:

The Palestinian representative to the UN, Riyad Mansour, said:

"It has taken six months, over 100,000 Palestinians killed and maimed, two million displaced, and famine, for this council to finally demand an immediate ceasefire," Mansour tells the UN.

Meanwhile Israel has cancelled a delegation to White House visit and accused America from departing from a previously held policy position - ‘Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called it a "clear retreat" from the previous US position’


Meanwhile plans to move back Jewish settlement communities to Gaza once the Palestinians have “gone” is underway

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815

On a personal note, hearing from a Zionist Jewish relative in the States last night, I was really floored to hear them say that ‘Hamas initiated the attack to get this response from Israel so the World would then favour Gaza and hand Israel over to Gaza’. I wasn’t shocked that she said Hamas engineered Israel to attack Gaza (because many of us could surmise that ) but that she honestly believed the international community would ‘hand Israel over to Gaza’ - in other words there seems to be a very entrenched viewpoint in at least one Zionist in my family that Gaza/Palestine does not even exist as a separate entity and it all legitimately is a part of the land of Israel - that it is Palestinians who are the interlopers. How on earth do you unpack that kind of worldview and hold any hope for a peaceful settlement? If Israeli Jews don’t even accept that Israel is an Occupier of the Palestinian territories and the settlements go back into Gaza described in the BBC article above?
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,877
Zeberdi said:
UPDATE

The UN Security Council finally has passed a resolution for a ceasefire (until the end of Ramadan) to get aid into Gaza - The UK supported it and while the US did not vote for it, it did not veto it either:
Click to expand...

It is genuinely good news. I'll add it to the 180+ concerning Israel.

The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel.

As of 2013, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). Since the UNHRC's creation in 2006, it has resolved almost as many resolutions condemning Israel alone than on issues for the rest of the world combined.

:down:
 
Last edited:




PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
18,712
Hurst Green
WATFORD zero said:
It is genuinely good news. I'll add it to the 180+ concerning Israel.

The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel.

As of 2013, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). Since the UNHRC's creation in 2006, it has resolved almost as many resolutions condemning Israel alone than on issues for the rest of the world combined.

:down:
Click to expand...
About time Israel are called out for what they are. The government are nothing but evil
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,667
Fiveways
WATFORD zero said:
It is genuinely good news. I'll add it to the 180+ concerning Israel.

The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel.

As of 2013, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). Since the UNHRC's creation in 2006, it has resolved almost as many resolutions condemning Israel alone than on issues for the rest of the world combined.

:down:
Click to expand...
Guess which issue has generated the most vetoes in the UN Security Council? And guess which of the P5 exercised that veto? And guess over which issue that P5 exercised that veto?
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,034
The arse end of Hangleton
PILTDOWN MAN said:
About time Israel are called out for what they are. The government are nothing but evil
Click to expand...
The problem is that Israel just ignore UN resolutions and always have. Yet they then complain the US doesn't veto the ceasefire resolution. Maybe, just maybe, if they adhered to international law ( ** cough ** illegal settlements ), laws on war and UN resolutions they might get a bit more sympathy. None coming from the WS household any more. Time to have a UN ENFORCED ceasefire and Israel's leaders done for war crimes.
 






Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,034
The arse end of Hangleton
fly high said:
Along with Hamas leaders.
Click to expand...
More than happy for that to happen too BUT Hamas aren't a recognised state government and haven't signed up to things like the Geneva Convention which strictly speaking means they can't be prosecuted for war crimes or breaking international law. They could of course be prosecuted for murder but only by Israel and even then only the individuals involved.
 


PILTDOWN MAN

PILTDOWN MAN

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 15, 2004
18,712
Hurst Green
fly high said:
Along with Hamas leaders.
Click to expand...
Totally agree but there can be no one who posts on here can continue to believe Israel's leaders are acting anywhere near compliance of the engagement of war.

It's about time leaders here and abroad properly call them out for the murderers they are.
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,882
fly high said:
Along with Hamas leaders.
Click to expand...
That goes without saying so why does it keep needing to be said?

A ‘ceasefire’ in any conflict by definition is bilateral otherwise any laying down of weapons is a ‘surrender’. Ceasefire negotiations have continued throughout the war with either Israel or Hamas refusing to accept conditions put forward by the other.

The problem is this:

  • Hamas leaders in Qatar participating in the ceasefire negotiations seem to have little control over the Hamas brigades in Gaza which are semi-autonomous groups and largely self-sustaining.
  • Likewise the moderates in Netanyahu’s government have little control over the far right Religious Zionists in the government that are propping up Netanyahu’s premiership.
  • The majority of Israeli citizens just want their hostages back and Netanyahu out.
  • Gazan civilians want their lives back and the Israelis out of Gaza and to be free from the controlling oppression of the Hamas paramilitaries.
  • Netanyahu’s Government wants the Palestinians out of Gaza (despite protestations to the contrary) and ’Israel’s‘ borders to include the Occupied territories.
  • The West needs to keep Israel on side for strategic influence in the Middle East but wants Israel to stop killing Gazan civilians en masse and work for a two State Solution.
  • Israel wants to keep the West on side for protection but wants to ignore their calls for a ceasefire and independent Palestine State in order to pursue their long term aim of removing Palestinians from Gaza.

Everyone involved in this war has different and conflicting agendas but the majority of the world and those on NSC just want the killing and human-engineered famine to stop - that is NOT a polarised debate unless you want or even readily accept as ‘justified collateral’, 10s of thousands of innocent civilians being killed or dying from starvation. As has been said many times, voicing horror and compassion for the people of Gaza is not mutually exclusive from utterly condemning Hamas for the atrocities carried out on 7/10. Both can be logically held as an humanitarian POV.

For some reason, it has been such a strong theme all through this thread of a few posters repeatedly accusing those highlighting the humanitarian crisis and genocidal nature of the war in Gaza of being anti-semitic or supporting Hamas or even trying to ‘crush’ debate - whatever that ‘debate is’. I honestly don’t know what the ‘opposing point of view’ the self-proclaimed ‘minority’ here is professing to hold - no one has actually ever spelt it out. If it is not just baiting argument for the love of argument then what is it that attracts so much animosity when people report what the Gazan population is suffering on NSC or when others march in support of independence - Islamophobia?


It’s a hot mess and always has been.
 




fly high

fly high

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
1,314
in a house
Zeberdi said:
That goes without saying so why does it keep needing to be said?

A ‘ceasefire’ in any conflict by definition is bilateral otherwise any laying down of weapons is a ‘surrender’. Ceasefire negotiations have continued throughout the war with either Israel or Hamas refusing to accept conditions put forward by the other.

The problem is this:

  • Hamas leaders in Qatar participating in the ceasefire negotiations seem to have little control over the Hamas brigades in Gaza which are semi-autonomous groups and largely self-sustaining.
  • Likewise the moderates in Netanyahu’s government have little control over the far right Religious Zionists in the government that are propping up Netanyahu’s premiership.
  • The majority of Israeli citizens just want their hostages back and Netanyahu out.
  • Gazan civilians want their lives back and the Israelis out of Gaza and to be free from the controlling oppression of the Hamas paramilitaries.
  • Netanyahu’s Government wants the Palestinians out of Gaza (despite protestations to the contrary) and ’Israel’s‘ borders to include the Occupied territories.
  • The West needs to keep Israel on side for strategic influence in the Middle East but wants Israel to stop killing Gazan civilians en masse and work for a two State Solution.
  • Israel wants to keep the West on side for protection but wants to ignore their calls for a ceasefire and independent Palestine State in order to pursue their long term aim of removing Palestinians from Gaza.

Everyone involved in this war has different and conflicting agendas but the majority of the world and those on NSC just want the killing and human-engineered famine to stop - that is NOT a polarised debate unless you want or even readily accept as ‘justified collateral’, 10s of thousands of innocent civilians being killed or dying from starvation. As has been said many times, voicing horror and compassion for the people of Gaza is not mutually exclusive from utterly condemning Hamas for the atrocities carried out on 7/10. Both can be logically held as an humanitarian POV.

For some reason, it has been such a strong theme all through this thread of a few posters repeatedly accusing those highlighting the humanitarian crisis and genocidal nature of the war in Gaza of being anti-semitic or supporting Hamas or even trying to ‘crush’ debate - whatever that ‘debate is’. I honestly don’t know what the ‘opposing point of view’ the self-proclaimed ‘minority’ here is professing to hold - no one has actually ever spelt it out. If it is not just baiting argument for the love of argument then what is it that attracts so much animosity when people report what the Gazan population is suffering on NSC or when others march in support of independence - Islamophobia?


It’s a hot mess and always has been.
Click to expand...
You obviously didn't bother reading exactly what I was replying to but hey ho. I read your long insightful posts but I really don't need a lecture tonight. Both sides are evil, both sides need to be see justice.
 


R

rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,578
And now the extreme right wing dictatorship ie the Israeli State is arresting the relatives of the Hamas hostages for protesting that Israel is continuing to persecute its war ie indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinians rather than negotiate a ceasefire to facilitate the release of those hostages.

Hopefully, someone with a gun (I care not whether Israeli or Palestinian), will take out Netanyahu quicksticks and put a stop to this nightmare.

www.bbc.co.uk

Israeli hostages’ relatives arrested at protest as Gaza talks break down

Family members and activists blocked a main road in Tel Aviv, demanding more be done to free them.
www.bbc.co.uk
 


You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here