[Albion] If RDZ plays Steele tomorrow...

sussex_guy2k2 · Mar 13, 2024

Greg Bobkin said:
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but why can't we, y'know, just get behind all the players (whoever they are) that are picked by RDZ for each game?

I'm sorry if that sounds totally non-sensationalist and terribly dull, but that's just how I ROLE

There’s a big difference between getting behind players at games (as I would always do) and discussing football on a football focused message board.

If we can’t say what we see here, what’s the point of this thing even existing?

Greg Bobkin · Mar 13, 2024

sussex_guy2k2 said:
There’s a big difference between getting behind players at games (as I would always do) and discussing football on a football focused message board.

If we can’t say what we see here, what’s the point of this thing even existing?

People can say whatever they like, clearly – and despite some of the shite that people spout about not actually being able to (but that's another debate).

But when the OP states 'If RDZ plays Steele tomorrow... I won't be responsible for my actions', I draw my own conclusions as to how much 'getting behind players at games' there is from them – and probably many others. If you're slagging off a player on here, the likelihood you are going to be pretty nonplussed (as per the OP's initial comment) when you're watching in the flesh. Until, that is, a goal-stopping save is made that is greeted with hearty applause by the hypocritical fans who'd previously called him shitehouse :lolol:

sussex_guy2k2 · Mar 13, 2024

Greg Bobkin said:
People can say whatever they like, clearly – and despite some of the shite that people spout about not actually being able to (but that's another debate).

But when the OP states 'If RDZ plays Steele tomorrow... I won't be responsible for my actions', I draw my own conclusions as to how much 'getting behind players at games' there is from them – and probably many others. If you're slagging off a player on here, the likelihood you are going to be pretty nonplussed (as per the OP's initial comment) when you're watching in the flesh. Until, that is, a goal-stopping save is made that is greeted with hearty applause by the hypocritical fans who'd previously called him shitehouse

For sure. But you’re assuming everything is linear and that only 2 things can be true at any one time, none of which is true.

I support BHA. I want us to win games. I will cheer on the odd occasion Jason Steele saves a shot that’s right at him.

Equally, I don’t think he’s very good and everything I’ve seen in real terms and statistically backs that up.

As a result, I worry every time I see his name on the team sheet, because I think we have less chance of winning with him in the team (as has been the case statistically this season and last).

But will I still support him when he’s picked? Of course, because I want my team to win.

Saying that, the OPs post was total click bait.

What’s he going to do… slice off his own finger in protest or something?

sussex_guy2k2 · Mar 13, 2024

ooops

Nobby Cybergoat · Mar 13, 2024

sussex_guy2k2 said:
What’s he going to do… slice off his own finger in protest or something?

I'll encourage anything for a few less inane goalkeeping threads

GJN1 · Mar 13, 2024

Greg Bobkin said:
People can say whatever they like, clearly – and despite some of the shite that people spout about not actually being able to (but that's another debate).

But when the OP states 'If RDZ plays Steele tomorrow... I won't be responsible for my actions', I draw my own conclusions as to how much 'getting behind players at games' there is from them – and probably many others. If you're slagging off a player on here, the likelihood you are going to be pretty nonplussed (as per the OP's initial comment) when you're watching in the flesh. Until, that is, a goal-stopping save is made that is greeted with hearty applause by the hypocritical fans who'd previously called him shitehouse

Chill out. Steele's not as good as Bart. That's the nuts and bolts of it. Course I don't hate him. But please forgive me for having an opinion. Actually, don't forgive me. Couldn't care less.

Greg Bobkin · Mar 13, 2024

sussex_guy2k2 said:
For sure. But you’re assuming everything is linear and that only 2 things can be true at any one time, none of which is true.

I support BHA. I want us to win games. I will cheer on the odd occasion Jason Steele saves a shot that’s right at him.

Equally, I don’t think he’s very good and everything I’ve seen in real terms and statistically backs that up.

As a result, I worry every time I see his name on the team sheet, because I think we have less chance of winning with him in the team (as has been the case statistically this season and last).

But will I still support him when he’s picked? Of course, because I want my team to win.

Saying that, the OPs post was total click bait.

What’s he going to do… slice off his own finger in protest or something?

That's all I'm really saying, I guess. But I know that some people will be GENUINELY angry when/if he is picked – and that won't change, regardless of how he plays. If he has a shocker, then they'll feel justified in their anger.

All of which is pretty sad, on many levels.

Greg Bobkin · Mar 13, 2024

GJN1 said:
Chill out. Steele's not as good as Bart. That's the nuts and bolts of it. Course I don't hate him. But please forgive me for having an opinion. Actually, don't forgive me. Couldn't care less.

Said the person that started the very needy thread in the first place! ok mate...

But you're quite right about not caring and not apologising. That's the great thing about opinions – they don't really make a difference to anyone or anything. You won't be responsible for your actions if a football player gets picked to play in goal for a professional sports team. Perfectly fine and TOTALLY normal behaviour.

Although apparently my opinions mean I need to 'chill out', according to you. Well done for not giving a shite :thumbsup:

nwgull · Mar 13, 2024

Greg Bobkin said:
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but why can't we, y'know, just get behind all the players (whoever they are) that are picked by RDZ for each game?

I'm sorry if that sounds totally non-sensationalist and terribly dull, but that's just how I ROLE

We can, and I certainly do - I'm sure whoever is picked will give their best efforts. However, it's our right as fans to challenge the manager's selection decisions.

hans kraay fan club · Mar 13, 2024

Bold Seagull said:
How is an inflexible manager so flexible with his tactics and selections? You're posts appear to be after less flexibility, not more?

Inflexible in his approach / style / ethos - even if he may have two formations (I'd argue that he doesn't really, as one of them is absolute suicide). To be flexible, or pragmatic, would be to recognise shifts in momentum, to react to subtle alterations in the opposition's tactics, to dial it in a bit for spells to soak up heavy pressure, to stay compact to protect a lead, etc.

Under RDZ, for good or for bad, that stuff just doesn't happen. Regardless of the opposition, regardless of the score, regardless of whether it is a two-legged tie that it would be a good idea to stay alive in - its De Zerbi's way, ALL the way - take the risks at the back, draw them on, leave your centre backs completely exposed, etc.

How many manager's teams would concede an injury time winner away at Spurs, with both centre backs ahead of the ball, in the opposition's half? 90%+ of other managers would have recognised a really good, hard-earned point, and closed out the game.

It's thrilling when it works. Flexible, it very much is not.

(And I KNOW people are going to argue that its exciting, and why would you want it any other way. I'd point at Adam Lallana's EXEMPLARY cameo to close things out on Sunday, and suggest that pragmatism can be fun, too).

Bold Seagull · Mar 13, 2024

nwgull said:
We can, and I certainly do - I'm sure whoever is picked will give their best efforts. However, it's our right as fans to challenge the manager's selection decisions.

Is this from the Fan’s Bill of Rights?

Justice · Mar 13, 2024

Greg Bobkin said:
If RDZ thinks it's the right thing to do, that's fine with me.

By the way, does the 'more' bit in 'makes saves and more' include giving away possession while Fannying Around At The Back™ that leads to a goal being conceded?Because Bart is certainly winning in that respect, I'll give him that. Probably something to do with him being a young keeper, with room for improvement, which is possibly why there is a more than capable (despite some people's opinions on here and elsewhere) who shares the spot with him.

RDZ doesn’t always do the right thing on team selections. Three at the back clearly doesn’t work, Milner at full back clearly doesn’t work. At the end of the day I love the club mangers players all come and go and there is nothing wrong with calling them out. Players not putting in a shift or managers making the wrong team selections isn’t a new thing.
Interestingly my customer this week is a Villa ST holder, despite their position he says they have been rubbish for weeks getting lucky with results and could see Spurs hammering them before the game. Doesn’t rate the big money signings sees a financial disaster incoming and wishes they were run like Brighton

The point is supporters yes are sometimes reactionary although we often see the big picture.

American Seagle · Mar 13, 2024

Bry Nylon said:
The thing I have to do tomorrow night will be concluded by about 7.45pm. So frankly, everything hinges on the team news I am expecting to receive from @Frutos at 7pm. Bart = head home to follow the game; Steele = go to the supermarket and do the grocery shopping.

I assume this is because you think Steele should be our number one goaltender and so he should be rested for the EPL and not the cup keeper?

Bry Nylon · Mar 13, 2024

Nobby Cybergoat said:
I'll encourage anything for a few less inane goalkeeping threads

Use the Ignore Thread option. It works a treat for me on the Let's Count To Whatever Number It Is (Unless We All Die First) thread, that shite Jukebox one plus the daily horse racing thing. Gone.

The fact that there have been a few GK threads lately, each running to multiple pages, suggests that it is a topic people have strong opinions on and want to discuss, no matter how much some others may wish to close the debate down and say, 'just back who the manager selects and shut up.'

Bold Seagull · Mar 13, 2024

hans kraay fan club said:
Inflexible in his approach / style / ethos - even if he may have two formations (I'd argue that he doesn't really, as one of them is absolute suicide). To be flexible, or pragmatic, would be to recognise shifts in momentum, to react to subtle alterations in the opposition's tactics, to dial it in a bit for spells to soak up heavy pressure, to stay compact to protect a lead, etc.

Under RDZ, for good or for bad, that stuff just doesn't happen. Regardless of the opposition, regardless of the score, regardless of whether it is a two-legged tie that it would be a good idea to stay alive in - its De Zerbi's way, ALL the way - take the risks at the back, draw them on, leave your centre backs completely exposed, etc.

How many manager's teams would concede an injury time winner away at Spurs, with both centre backs ahead of the ball, in the opposition's half? 90%+ of other managers would have recognised a really good, hard-earned point, and closed out the game.

It's thrilling when it works. Flexible, it very much is not.

(And I KNOW people are going to argue that its exciting, and why would you want it any other way. I'd point at Adam Lallana's EXEMPLARY cameo to close things out on Sunday, and suggest that pragmatism can be fun, too).

Whether a coach is flexible is surely a matter of comparison to their contemporaries? I'd suggest pretty much all managers stick to an ethos / approach, and flexibility is merely levels of variation of that. I'd still argue he is on the more flexible side of things than not in comparison to most other managers.

To use your example, most managers wouldn't have been flexible enough to try to get the win at Spurs, and yes would have been inflexible in their general approach to an away game at a big side and tried to see out a point.

GJN1 · Mar 13, 2024

Bry Nylon said:
Use the Ignore Thread option. It works a treat for me on the Let's Count To Whatever Number It Is (Unless We All Die First) thread, that shite Jukebox one plus the daily horse racing thing. Gone.

The fact that there have been a few GK threads lately, each running to multiple pages, suggests that it is a topic people have strong opinions on and want to discuss, no matter how much some others may wish to close the debate down and say, 'just back who the manager selects and shut up.'

I think we should erase all existing threads and just have one called 'Keep Your Opinions to Yourself Pal and Just Back The Manager Irrespective of Everything Ever.'

The Fits · Mar 13, 2024

For me there's two conflicting facts.
1. BV is the better all round keeper.
2. JS is better at those really risky passes.

And that's why ees complicated.

Johnny RoastBeef · Mar 13, 2024

Uh_huh_him said:
That may be true, but Steele's ability to hold onto the ball until the very last second and make the pass, to beat the press, is exactly what RDZ wants him to do.

Then he's wrong, because in Bart's 13 Premier League starts we've scored 26 goals. That's 2 goals per game.

In Jason's 15 league starts we've scored 24 goals. That's 1.6 goals per game.

We scored more and conceded fewer with Verbruggen in goal, yet De Zerbi insists on playing Steele more often.

Bart also stops more crosses than Steele, 6.4% to Steele's 5.3% of all crosses.

I don't care if he is a genius, on this De Zerbi is wrong.

mejonaNO12 aka riskit · Mar 13, 2024

GJN1 said:
... I won't be responsible for my actions.

Will it make you hate all white male goalkeepers?

Bozza · Mar 13, 2024

Johnny RoastBeef said:
Then he's wrong, because in Bart's 13 Premier League starts we've scored 26 goals. That's 2 goals per game.

In Jason's 15 league starts we've scored 24 goals. That's 1.6 goals per game.

We scored more and conceded fewer with Verbruggen in goal, yet De Zerbi insists on playing Steele more often.

Bart also stops more crosses than Steele, 6.4% to Steele's 5.3% of all crosses.

I don't care if he is a genius, on this De Zerbi is wrong.

Perhaps, but it's not a like-for-like comparison, is it?

RDZ has said his choice of keeper is down to tactical reasons. Based on what is a broad consensus as to the relative strengths of each of our 'keepers, it likely comes down to two factors...

- Against certain opposition or opposition styles/expected tactics, RDZ believes Steele's better footwork and range of passing is what he wants.
- Against other opposition rf other opposition styles/expected tactics, RDZ believes Verbruggen's better shot-stopping is what he wants.

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[Albion] If RDZ plays Steele tomorrow...

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