Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

Register Log in

[News] Shemima Begum- Should she be allowed to return to the UK?

Allow Shemima Begrum back into the UK?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,877
sparkie said:
No - my post was in response to :

"We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

Boot them out if these "problem people" are in the UK ILLEGALLY.

They must have come from somewhere :shrug:
Click to expand...
Whether they are illegal or not, where are you sending them if no one will accept them and they are stateless, ie they aren't a citizen of anywhere.

Where they come from won't accept them back because they are not a citizen of that country :shrug:
 




sparkie

sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,513
Hove
WATFORD zero said:
Whether they are illegal or not, where are you sending them if no one will accept them and they are stateless, ie they aren't a citizen of anywhere.

Where they come from won't accept them back because they are not a citizen of that country :shrug:
Click to expand...
If they are not UK citizens ( or have visas to stay ) then they should not be in the UK :shrug:

If the country that sent them will not accept them then the UK can use the same process to not accept them as well ? :shrug:


We cannot have people staying who are outside the immigration/asylum process.
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,877
sparkie said:
If they are not UK citizens ( or have visas to stay ) then they should not be in the UK :shrug:

If the country that sent them will not accept them then the UK can use the same process to not accept them ? :shrug:
Click to expand...
Then should Syria should also be able to do the same ?

Shemima Begum is in Syria and they don't want her there, she is not a Syrian citizen and doesn't have a visa to stay. She was a British citizen and went from Britain to Syria illegally. Britain then removed her citizenship. So where should Syria now send her ?
 


Z

zeemeeuw

Well-known member
Apr 8, 2006
688
Somerset
JetsetJimbo said:
She's apparently not a Bangladeshi citizen, she's just eligible for citizenship (in much the same way I could apply for an Irish passport if I wanted to). That's what's so insidious about this - it means anyone with a foreign grandparent now has a diminished, second-class form of British citizenship that can be withdrawn by the government.
Click to expand...


That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)
 


sparkie

sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,513
Hove
WATFORD zero said:
Then should Syria should also be able to do the same ?

Shemima Begum is in Syria and they don't want her there, she is not a Syrian citizen and doesn't have a visa to stay. She was a British citizen and went from Britain to Syria illegally. Britain then removed her citizenship. So where should Syria now send her ?
Click to expand...
You keep missing that I was responding to :

"We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

My response was nothing to do with any specific individual - I am not a well paid UK Civil Servant who has specific individual cases on their work "to do" list.
 
Last edited:




WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
25,877
sparkie said:
You keep missing that I was responding to :

"We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

My response was nothing to do with any specific individual.
Click to expand...
The whole thread is about an individual that Britain have 'dumped' on another country and you have yet to answer what should happen in this situation.
 


JetsetJimbo

JetsetJimbo

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2011
950
zeemeeuw said:
That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)
Click to expand...

I think you got too hung up on my Ireland example, which on reflection I shouldn't have included because it's not relevant. The Bangladeshi government have confirmed that she is not a citizen. She has been stripped of her British citizenship because the British courts believe she is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship, even though she doesn't have it.

It'd be bad enough if she did have Bangladeshi citizenship, because that would mean all dual nationals now had a weakened, second-class form of British citizenship. But because she doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship, it's even worse: Anyone who might be eligible for citizenship of another country, whether that's through a grandparent or anything else, is now a second-class British citizen.
 


Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,869
Playing snooker
WATFORD zero said:
The whole thread is about an individual that Britain have 'dumped' on another country and you have yet to answer what should happen in this situation.
Click to expand...
Britain didn't dump Shemina Begum in Syria or anywhere else; she went there of her own free will. The fact that she can no longer return is very much her problem to sort out.
 




sparkie

sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
12,513
Hove
WATFORD zero said:
The whole thread is about an individual that Britain have 'dumped' on another country and you have yet to answer what should happen in this situation.
Click to expand...
I am pretty bored with you repeatedly missing that I responded specifically to "We cant complain if other countries dump problem people into the Uk now."

I am certainly not going to spend hours or days formulating a policy for illegal entry outliers unpaid. Lol.

Thread ignore-ed. This is really not adding to my life.
 
Last edited:


Z

zeemeeuw

Well-known member
Apr 8, 2006
688
Somerset
JetsetJimbo said:
I think you got too hung up on my Ireland example, which on reflection I shouldn't have included because it's not relevant. The Bangladeshi government have confirmed that she is not a citizen. She has been stripped of her British citizenship because the British courts believe she is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship, even though she doesn't have it.

It'd be bad enough if she did have Bangladeshi citizenship, because that would mean all dual nationals now had a weakened, second-class form of British citizenship. But because she doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship, it's even worse: Anyone who might be eligible for citizenship of another country, whether that's through a grandparent or anything else, is now a second-class British citizen
Click to expand...

Yep, she's effectively stateless now because her (provisional) Bangladesh Citizenship lapsed when she was 21 but she was 19 when she had the British citizenship withdrawn. All about legal technicalities, I suppose. Ultimately, needs some kind of international court to decide.
 


Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,213
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Bry Nylon said:
Britain didn't dump Shemina Begum in Syria or anywhere else; she went there of her own free will. The fact that she can no longer return is very much her problem to sort out.
Click to expand...
Exactly this.

The growing division in this country over immigration is unfortunate and government led, but here we have a young lady who has made a bed she needs to lie in.
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,315
zeemeeuw said:
That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)
Click to expand...
as i recall that's exactly the case, automatic citizenship for children of Bangledesh citizens.
 


Randy McNob

Randy McNob

Now go home and get your f#cking Shinebox
Jun 13, 2020
4,464
We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights
 








Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,869
Playing snooker
Randy McNob said:
We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights
Click to expand...
Yes, if I choose to leave the country to join ISIS, I accept the loss of my British citizenship is a risk I now take.

Just to make sure that doesn’t happen, I’m going to make a note in my diary not to do that.
 


S

Sea Cider

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2012
450
Is it PotG? said:
I regard ISIS as a bigger threat to my human rights tbh.
Click to expand...
For goodness sake, she was a stupid 15 year old girl, probably brainwashed and likely sexually exploited, hardly the second coming of Osama Bin Laden.

If you're worried about safety, presume everyone accused of a violent crime should have their citizenship removed and be deported accordingly.
 


The Clamp

The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,541
West is BEST
Randy McNob said:
We should all be more concerned about a legal precedent being set for our state to have the power to revoke a person's citizenship. An assault on all our human rights
Click to expand...

I can’t say this case concerns me very much.

It is highly unlikely a normal persons’ citizenship will be revoked as they go about their lawful business.



Do we have a duty of care to her? Very arguable point. I used to think that was a definite yes, we are responsible for her welfare.

I’m uncertain now.

Although being 15 at the time and so was vulnerable by default.

I would allow her back but she’d have to be in some sort of custodial arrangement until deemed 💯 safe.
 




KZNSeagull

KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
19,832
Wolsingham, County Durham


Randy McNob

Randy McNob

Now go home and get your f#cking Shinebox
Jun 13, 2020
4,464
zeemeeuw said:
That's not the case (certainly for Ireland), you are automatically a citizen of Ireland if 1 or more of your parents were born in Ireland:

From the Irish Gov website:

"3. Born outside Ireland to an Irish parent​

If you were born outside of Ireland, you are automatically an Irish citizen by birth if either one of your parents was born in Ireland and was entitled to Irish citizenship."

I know this because I have indeed applied and own an Irish passport (for the obvious advantages), I did not have to apply to be a citizen first. I am doing the same process for my Children and they do have to apply for citizenship first and then they can apply for passport.

I'm not a judge, but if Bangladesh has similar rules then this is why the justice system is ruling that Britain has acted legally.

(P.S. I do agree that we should have a moral responsibility to deal with her.)
Click to expand...
Oh yes, there was a surge in applications for Irish passports after we voted to significantly devalue ours in return for changing the colour
 


You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here