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[News] Alabama carries out first nitrogen gas execution



Pevenseagull

Pevenseagull

Anti-greed coalition
Jul 20, 2003
19,649
Is it PotG? said:
An eye for an eye" is a commandment found in the Book of Exodus 21:23–27 expressing the principle of reciprocal justice measure for measure.
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Leviticus bangs on about treating strangers from a strange land as your brother... God squad choose to f*** that word of God off.


Edit ... Quote 3A33-37&version=KJV#:~:text=And%20if%20a%20stranger%20sojourn%20with%20thee%


www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 19:33-37 - King James Version

And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. Ye shall do no unrighteousness in...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
 




R

Robdinho

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
1,036
The Wizard said:
The death penalty should be abolished, reading the details of this it was entirely predictable and excruciatingly obvious given what everyone knows about nitrogen inhalation that this would not be a pleasant death to witness or endure.
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Interested to know what you think "everyone knows about nitrogen inhalation"? I work in the gases industry, and it is well known that breathing a 100% nitrogen atmosphere will lead to loss of consciousness very quickly, after as little as 2 breaths. In incidents where people have survived, they have described feeling a little light headed, but then absolutely nothing until they are revived.

Something does not add up here. It should not take 25 minutes and should be entirely painless - the air is about 78% nitrogen anyway, so breathing it wouldn't feel any different, you simply pass out as your brain is deprived of oxygen.
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
brighton_dave said:
I referenced case by case. There are such cases where it is cut and dry, Lee Rigby'a killer being a prime example. Is it right to let them live? Not in my view, take my taxes and use them for a good purpose, not to house an animal.
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It's easy to pick out the clear cut cases but that's not reality. Either every case is a guaranteed slam dunk or none are if the ultimate punishment is death.
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
Is it PotG? said:
Just to clarify your position, is it against capital punishment per se or concerns over possible miscarriages of justice?
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It can, and probably is, both for most of us. You can't have murder as a crime in the eyes of the law and the state then commits murder, it doesn't work as a deterrent, and when the courts get it wrong, there's no going back.
 


drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
brighton_dave said:
I'm a firm believer and advocate of fairness.
Allowing Lee Rigby's killers to sit in a cell each day and one day be released is something I don't see as fair.
There would be a queue of people willing to do the necessary with them.
Justice where justice is due, retribution where there are such vile acts of crime. Who is the justice for, the killer?
I'd like to think I'm being balanced with this.
I'm giving up with replying. We all have different views and aren't changing one another's by continuous debate.
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One of them was given a whole life sentence so will never be out and the other has to serve a minimum of 46 years with no guarantee he'll be let out then. You're trying to make it sound like they'll get out in a few years with good behaviour.
 




drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,070
Burgess Hill
brighton_dave said:
Genuine question.

Your child's is violently stabbed and has their head chopped off by machete? The offender is caught in the act and there is CCTV too.
Are you happy for the offender to spend life in prison and to be released for being well behaved?
Or would you prefer their life to be taken, so there is never any chance of them doing it on release? In their life being taken you wouldn't want to see the suffer?
If there's an issue with how, it's done them let the family decide.
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Your child is inconveniently at the scene of a violent murder, tries to help the victim but ends up covered in blood. Courts convict them and they get executed. How do you feel now?

If you feel that much about eye for an eye, then carry out the reciprocal crime yourself, don't expect the state, in our name, do it for you.
 




Klaas

Klaas

I've changed this
Nov 1, 2017
2,567




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,204
Faversham
jcdenton08 said:
Perhaps, yes, but this doesn’t make capital punishment acceptable. Just take a look at the sheer number of miscarriages of justice discovered (or, should I say, “revealed”) after 20-30 years in prison or even on death row. Without the death penalty, he still would never have been released anyway.

And don’t talk to me about cost; most US prisons are “for profit” businesses, and their cost is a drop in the ocean in a nation where money is king. Compare and contrast the yearly cost of every single prisoner in the entire United States with one month of profit for Big Pharma.
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Potty is a big fat idiot. Fact.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
50,204
Faversham
WATFORD zero said:
It's so well documented that I won't even bother with the overwhelming evidence that the death penalty is not a deterrent in any shape or form. I'm sure even you're capable of finding that on Google.

But, maybe you should watch this.



Because as the 1st Earl of Birkenhead famously said

Judge: I've listened to you for an hour and I'm none wiser.
Earle of Birkenhead: None the wiser, perhaps, my lord but certainly better informed.
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Pierrepoint Potty for executioner general. Yay!

You know it makes nonsense. But anything to give him a Big Blue Boner.

:shootself
 


S

Shropshire Seagull

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2004
8,509
Telford
Robdinho said:
Interested to know what you think "everyone knows about nitrogen inhalation"? I work in the gases industry, and it is well known that breathing a 100% nitrogen atmosphere will lead to loss of consciousness very quickly, after as little as 2 breaths. In incidents where people have survived, they have described feeling a little light headed, but then absolutely nothing until they are revived.

Something does not add up here. It should not take 25 minutes and should be entirely painless - the air is about 78% nitrogen anyway, so breathing it wouldn't feel any different, you simply pass out as your brain is deprived of oxygen.
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Yes, I've watched documentaries about pilot training and leaning to recognise the signs of hypoxia before they completely pass out.
My understanding is that if you remove all the oxygen, the brain will shut down very quickly [fall asleep] and if no oxygen is received [via blood-flow] to the brain, within ~3 minutes, the brain will begin to die. All while unconscious, the victim will feel nothing, maybe up to 25? minutes of zero oxygen and the victim can no longer be revived.

My understanding of hypoxia is that it is very different from being asphyxiated by e.g. strangulation or being drowned - there's no panic or struggle, you just fall asleep, often without any obvious warning.

When the Pan-Am 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, most passengers died of hypoxia and were already dead before they hit the ground. Was it right to keep Abu Agila Mohammad Mas'ud Kheir Al-Marimi locked up for 10 years and then release him on compassionate grounds in 2009? He maintains his innocence but was detained in Dec-2022 by the USA.

I also don't believe capital punishment is a deterrent, but could it help with prison overcrowding .... maybe space for the boat-people instead of hotels?
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
50,204
Faversham
tedebear said:
The death penalty needs removing the world over. Murder is illegal, yet the state can the do it? Even worse in the US when they get it wrong so often. You kill someone and found guilty by a jury of your fellow man, you have to sit in a prison for the rest of your life is my view....This guy died a horrid death today. The jury found him guilty but suggested life in prison. The judge overrules them, and then subequently the ability of the judge to do this is no longer, yet they don't reverse this one...Why??
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Sue Ellen would bring it back like a shot.

I hope she becomes tory 'leader' after the rout.

Then we will all be able to see how the land lies.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
50,204
Faversham
Shropshire Seagull said:
Yes, I've watched documentaries about pilot training and leaning to recognise the signs of hypoxia before they completely pass out.
My understanding is that if you remove all the oxygen, the brain will shut down very quickly [fall asleep] and if no oxygen is received [via blood-flow] to the brain, within ~3 minutes, the brain will begin to die. All while unconscious, the victim will feel nothing, maybe up to 25? minutes of zero oxygen and the victim can no longer be revived.

My understanding of hypoxia is that it is very different from being asphyxiated by e.g. strangulation or being drowned - there's no panic or struggle, you just fall asleep, often without any obvious warning.

When the Pan-Am 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, most passengers died of hypoxia and were already dead before they hit the ground. Was it right to keep Abu Agila Mohammad Mas'ud Kheir Al-Marimi locked up for 10 years and then release him on compassionate grounds in 2009? He maintains his innocence but was detained in Dec-2022 by the USA.

I also don't believe capital punishment is a deterrent, but could it help with prison overcrowding .... maybe space for the boat-people instead of hotels?
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I recommend you read Jonathan Swift. You'll presumably not recognize the satire.

How about some music?

 






Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,878
Is it PotG? said:
Maybe a system where the guilty party is rolled out, then either the family or a trained pro does 'the deed' in the same manner that the perpetrator did originally.
Just a suggestion.
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Like this you mean?
brighton_dave said:
Your child's is violently stabbed and has their head chopped off by machete?
Click to expand...
Is it PotG? said:
Just to clarify your position, is it against capital punishment per se or concerns over possible miscarriages of justice?
Click to expand...
People like to use a bit of Latin in their arguments - they think it makes them look clever but in this instance, it is an ‘acyrologia‘ (🙂 ) because there is no ‘per se’ about it, @WATFORD zero has already answered you (several times in fact) : specifically, (not in principle or for its own sake) that the argument against CP is a/ it is not a deterrent (one of the functions of the criminal justice system) and b/ innocent people can be wrongly convicted (one of the dysfunctions of the criminal justice system)
Is it PotG? said:
An eye for an eye" is a commandment found in the Book of Exodus 21:23–27 expressing the principle of reciprocal justice measure for measure.
Click to expand...
I think if you start quoting OT biblical texts literally, selectively and ignoring historical context, you are on unstable ground - The OT also says homosexuality is punishable by death (Lev 20:13), do not make false charges and kill innocent people (Ex 23:7), and in several places, orders the babies of Israel’s enemies to be ‘dashed against the rocks’ and pregnant women’s bellies ‘ripped open’ etc 1 Sam 15:2-3, Hos 13:16.

I will add:
There is no proof that CP deters criminals in fact, the certainty of being caught is a more powerful deterrent than the punishment - in other words, those committing a crime will already have made a cost:benefit analysis based on whether the risk of getting caught is higher than the benefit of the crime.

The death penalty is inhumane (botched executions) , doesn’t address the causes of crime and is biased against those from minority backgrounds and disabled people; It also doesn’t save the taxpayer money - in the States research has shown: “The median cost of a non-death penalty case (through the end of incarceration) is $740,000 while the median cost of a death penalty case through execution is a striking $1.26 billion”.
 
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DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,600
jcdenton08 said:
I am vehemently anti capital punishment, so this sickens me.
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Absolutely this. And seeing and reading about this yesterday was particularly awful.

if - big if - they feel the need to kill people, why Not hanging? 50 years ago I read a book about executioner Pierrepoint, where he described how from going to the condemned cell through to putting the noose on to pulling the lever for the trapdoor was all over in a matter of seconds.

he also, as our chief executioner for a number of years, said he thought it was not a deterrent.
 
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DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
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Jan 3, 2012
16,600
portlock seagull said:
Why is revenge not allowed? Eye for an eye and all that. Lots of people want that and couldn’t care less about deterrent argument.
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An eye for an eye in the Bible is an exhortation to LIMIT any revenge…. To prevent feuds and the like. It is not an “instruction”.
 


DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,600
kojak said:
Nobody said it's a deterrent
Justice is served
That's all
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But that is very much a matter of opinion, as is evidenced by this thread.

and for anyone who rolls out the “eye for an eye” argument, the Bible also says “Thou shalt not Kill”, and does not add “unless authorised to do so by the state.
 


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