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[Football] Forfeiting games or walking off when “fans” are racist



portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,156
I see this idea is again being suggested. An emotional and ill conceived idea, IMO.

For example, 1 idiot can mean 30-40-50 thousand others suffer too. And what if someone does it deliberately, doesn’t even support club in question? Could other fans then sue the club for expenses incurred, if the match is abandoned? What about situations where someone even misunderstands or hears, something we even got charged with years ago. And a million other rationale reasons exist why this is a bad idea.

Of course, if (IF!) you’ve hundreds or thousands of idiots chanting something, it’s a different picture. But that’s NOT the situation. It’s one or two individuals time and again. Even children sometimes. And if we’re trying to erase stupidity totally from the human race, not just football, then frankly good luck with that. Punish the perpetrator, now largely happening, but why should the rest of us and the club suffer too? No one knows what some knobhead might do from week to week in crowds of tens of thousands. All a bit sledgehammer and nut, and whilst I understand the sentiment it’s just not the way forward. IMO, naturally.
 






Eeyore

Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,617
portlock seagull said:
I see this idea is again being suggested. An emotional and ill conceived idea, IMO.

For example, 1 idiot can mean 30-40-50 thousand others suffer too. And what if someone does it deliberately, doesn’t even support club in question? Could other fans then sue the club for expenses incurred, if the match is abandoned? What about situations where someone even misunderstands or hears, something we even got charged with years ago. And a million other rationale reasons exist why this is a bad idea.

Of course, if (IF!) you’ve hundreds or thousands of idiots chanting something, it’s a different picture. But that’s NOT the situation. It’s one or two individuals time and again. Even children sometimes. And if we’re trying to erase stupidity totally from the human race, not just football, then frankly good luck with that. Punish the perpetrator, now largely happening, but why should the rest of us and the club suffer too? No one knows what some knobhead might do from week to week in crowds of tens of thousands. All a bit sledgehammer and nut, and whilst I understand the sentiment it’s just not the way forward. IMO, naturally.
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I agree with this. It's only a tiny number of people doing it.

Lifetime bans and prosecutions, very few disagree.

Cancelling a match- not fair on the thousands who have paid good money and time to attend.
 




portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,156
dazzer6666 said:
Sometime soon a racist fan is going to get a bit of rough justice from those around him.
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And with some many you tube influencers not watching the game, we’ll all get to see it hopefully!! :)
 




Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,136
Withdean area
portlock seagull said:
I see this idea is again being suggested. An emotional and ill conceived idea, IMO.

For example, 1 idiot can mean 30-40-50 thousand others suffer too. And what if someone does it deliberately, doesn’t even support club in question? Could other fans then sue the club for expenses incurred, if the match is abandoned? What about situations where someone even misunderstands or hears, something we even got charged with years ago. And a million other rationale reasons exist why this is a bad idea.

Of course, if (IF!) you’ve hundreds or thousands of idiots chanting something, it’s a different picture. But that’s NOT the situation. It’s one or two individuals time and again. Even children sometimes. And if we’re trying to erase stupidity totally from the human race, not just football, then frankly good luck with that. Punish the perpetrator, now largely happening, but why should the rest of us and the club suffer too? No one knows what some knobhead might do from week to week in crowds of tens of thousands. All a bit sledgehammer and nut, and whilst I understand the sentiment it’s just not the way forward. IMO, naturally.
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A blatant racist at Hillsborough just needs to be dealt with, as an ‘adult’, a life ban wouldn’t be too harsh imho. [Probably a blessing for him in missing decades of Massive].

In Italy he appears to be entire ends and :wanker: ultras :wanker: who carry out this crap, club owners don’t truly want to upset them. Perhaps the forfeit result punishment is apt to get arses into gear?
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,879
Absolutely not abandoning the match but it’s not all about the fans - should a black GK have to carry on playing with a chorus of monkey chants going on behind him?

I think there should be a time out, let the players go back to the tunnel, while the perpetrators get kicked out of the stadium/are arrested - suspended play will soon get other fans sitting near them shopping the culprits in in order that the match can resume.

I agree the match shouldn’t be abandoned but neither should players be expected to put up with racism.

If play can be suspended for a fan being seriously ill, it can be suspended for a few minutes to get rid of one/two shouting racist abuse from the stands.
 
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portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,156
Weststander said:
A blatant racist at Hillsborough just needs to be dealt with, as an ‘adult’, a life ban wouldn’t be too harsh imho. [Probably a blessing for him in missing decades of Massive].

In Italy he appears to be entire ends and :wanker: ultras :wanker: who carry out this crap, club owners don’t truly want to upset them. Perhaps the forfeit result punishment is apt to get arses into gear?
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Don’t know enough about Italian football, let them sort things out themselves. We shouldn’t get involved, same as foreign policy! ;)

Agree re: Shef Wed fan, as clear as daylight. Must be very very easy to have apprehended and dealt with yesterday never mind retrospect with cameras
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,319
agree that it seems harsh to impact a whole crowd, i think thats the point - make it collective responsibility and the terrace police themselves.

that said, there probably needs better actual policing, identifying and issue bans to individuals, before abandoning games. in UK we at least do this (who knows how well verse total incidents), elsewhere in Europe they have large groups of overtly right wing supporters they seem to overlook.
 






Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
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Aug 25, 2011
64,136
Withdean area
portlock seagull said:
Don’t know enough about Italian football, let them sort things out themselves. We shouldn’t get involved, same as foreign policy! ;)

Agree re: Shef Wed fan, as clear as daylight. Must be very very easy to have apprehended and dealt with yesterday never mind retrospect with cameras
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Not the UK getting involved in Italian football.

But UEFA or FIFA. This has gone on long enough, mass chanting and monkey noises.
 


dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,524
Burgess Hill
beorhthelm said:
agree that it seems harsh to impact a whole crowd, i think thats the point - make it collective responsibility and the terrace police themselves.

that said, there probably needs better actual policing, identifying and issue bans to individuals, before abandoning games. in UK we at least do this (who knows how well verse total incidents), elsewhere in Europe they have large groups of overtly right wing supporters they seem to overlook.
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They could…..but there is still a vocal cohort that would call out anyone reporting racist or similar stuff (we already have the ability to do this via text) as a ‘grass’ or ‘screaming for a policeman’ :shrug:
 


portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,156
Weststander said:
Not the UK getting involved in Italian football.

But UEFA or FIFA. This has gone on long enough, mass chanting and monkey noises.
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Is that like waiting for the UN to do something? And the League of Nations before that? All these bodies are almost exclusively useless at doing anything other than making money and corruption. If I were a racially abused player, I’d just move countries. Italian football doesn’t strike the sort of country that will do anything anytime soon. As you say, numerous chances before.
 








nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,618
Gods country fortnightly
Green Cross Code Man said:
Infantino. Blah blah blah. Good for him having a go at racists but doesn't stop him supporting competitions in racist and homophobic regimes. Disgusting person. Disgusting organisation.
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Follow the money that all they're really interested in, richest despot wins
 


Commander

Commander

Well-known member
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Apr 28, 2004
12,958
London
drew said:
If Fifa want to do something meaningful then stop handing out paltry fans when countries (and particularly some of the eastern european ones) allow racist abuse from their fans. And if they get a stadium ban, enforce it, don't let them fill it with racist children!!
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The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of large parts of Europe on this stuff. I just don't think most countries see it as seriously as we do here. Just like we didn't here 30 years ago. If you'd have talked about abandoning a football match here for someone throwing a banana on the pitch in the 70's, people would have thought you were mad. I'm sure the authorities probably made the right noises here in those days, but weren't really that bothered about sorting it out.

Give it another 20 years and the rest of Europe will catch up.
 




Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
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Jul 23, 2003
34,243
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Commander said:
The fact is that the UK is miles ahead of large parts of Europe on this stuff. I just don't think most countries see it as seriously as we do here. Just like we didn't here 30 years ago. If you'd have talked about abandoning a football match here for someone throwing a banana on the pitch in the 70's, people would have thought you were mad. I'm sure the authorities probably made the right noises here in those days, but weren't really that bothered about sorting it out.

Give it another 20 years and the rest of Europe will catch up.
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Disagree, but it will be interesting to watch. Worked with a Hungarian recently who left to come here while we were still in the EU because he could see how it was going and has no intention of returning all the time Orban is in charge (or similar).

One person is a massively small sample for sure but that's why I said 'interesting'. Hungarian liberals won't go back while he's in charge yet they'd be needed to affect the change. It feels chicken and egg.

Having spent time in 2022 in Bosnia and Croatia, they're not even over the war yet. Drove through one town in Bosnia with graffiti glorifying Slobodan Milosevic everywhere along with the Russian 'Z' symbol.

And the graffiti and the support for people like Orban will come from many Ultra groups over there. If anything football is more extreme rather than less.

Regarding the OP though, I thoroughly agree. It's horses for courses over here. You're correct we're miles ahead and therefore we really just need to be singling out, nicking and banning the one or two idiots ruining it for everyone else.
 


Beanstalk

Beanstalk

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2017
2,547
London
Needs to be tackled in partnership with governments, as a wider issue in society, rather than only existing within the football bubble.
 


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