[Albion] Why Are We So Wasteful?

[Uh_huh_him]

I see him shoot without any clue where the keeper is. Smacking the ball as hard as he can without first clocking where the keeper is, might under the stats come in as "on target" but it's less than useless. No bloody idea what they teach them in training. They all do it.

But that's precisely the argument against repetitively practising shooting.
You can't create the same matchday situation.
The issue isn't with his shooting technique, it's being switched on to the situation in hand.
It's pretty easy to clock where the keeper is and shoot at goal when all you're doing is practising shooting.

Neal's decision making is often poor IMO, he has a tendency to hold on to the ball too long, which often leads to no shot/poor shot/ bad lay off.
If he instinctively shot/laid off/passed back, he would be a hell of a player.

What he needs is practice in his decision making. Not an easy skill to train I would imagine.
Hopefully Potter is working with him on how to improve this, rather than channeling his inner Clough and getting him to practice his shooting.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I don't get that with Bissouma, so what ,he missed a couple but then scores, most of our other promising build ups end up with dithering about and not even a shot at goal.

I'm guessing that the stats don't bear that theory out.

Which is probably part of the problem. I have no problem with Bissouma chancing his arm. He can score them.
I'd be less happy with encouraging Davy to have a go too.

Bissouma is a special talent. If he thinks a shot's on, i will trust his judgement.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

But that's precisely the argument against repetitively practising shooting.
You can't create the same matchday situation.
The issue isn't with his shooting technique, it's being switched on to the situation in hand.
It's pretty easy to clock where the keeper is and shoot at goal when all you're doing is practising shooting.

Neal's decision making is often poor IMO, he has a tendency to hold on to the ball too long, which often leads to no shot/poor shot/ bad lay off.
If he instinctively shot/laid off/passed back, he would be a hell of a player.

What he needs is practice in his decision making. Not an easy skill to train I would imagine.
Hopefully Potter is working with him on how to improve this, rather than channeling his inner Clough and getting him to practice his shooting.

I'm not sure its an argument against practicing at all. Practice shooting morning noon and night and if a coach sees him idly smacking the ball in the general direction of the goal without thought to where the keeper is, then ask him what the bloody hell he is playing at. That I would of thought is the point of a coach?

 

[raymondo]

I don't get that with Bissouma, so what ,he missed a couple but then scores, most of our other promising build ups end up with dithering about and not even a shot at goal.

Agreed...and I do think that Biss's frequent shots are partly because he gets fed up seeing the team waste attacking opportunities so often. Good on ya Biss. Keep shooting!!

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I'm not sure its an argument against practicing at all. Practice shooting morning noon and night and if a coach sees him idly smacking the ball in the general direction of the goal without thought to where the keeper is, then ask him what the bloody hell he is playing at. That I would of thought is the point of a coach?

Err almost certainly not..

The argument against your theory is, I suspect, none of our strikers will have any problem beating the keeper in practice drills.
They have probably been doing that for 20 years and their muscle memory is as good as it's ever going to be.

The problem is, being ready for that opportunity and quick enough to execute that skill, against premier league defenders, in real match conditions.
More practice is likely to reinforce the idea that they have a split second more time than they will have during a match.

Or is this a parody account and I've been whooshed?

 

[Wardy's twin]

I think the timing of our misses and mistakes in games is often what hurts us. Yesterday was a good example where we made harder work of it as AGAIN we could not close out a half and Maupay missed a chance to put the opposition out of sight and coast out the game. Yesterday we got the result but in so many games this season that has cost us.

A striker who can take chances makes a huge difference to a clubs fortunes. Look at Southampton and the difference having the quality of Ings up front or how Wolves have plummeted since they lost Jimenez.

Apart from a quality striker I see little difference between the quality of our squads and theirs yet when they have had a quality striker both have been closer to the European spots than the relegation ones.

Southampton have scored 4 more goals in total than us and Ings and Maupay have both got 7 though latter has played more games.

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

Err almost certainly not..

The argument against your theory is, I suspect, none of our strikers will have any problem beating the keeper in practice drills.
They have probably been doing that for 20 years and their muscle memory is as good as it's ever going to be.

The problem is, being ready for that opportunity and quick enough to execute that skill, against premier league defenders, in real match conditions.
More practice is likely to reinforce the idea that they have a split second more time than they will have during a match.

Or is this a parody account and I've been whooshed?

I really don't agree. I don't believe he is a bad footballer, but his finishing needs work. In cricket there are batting coaches, and they look at players who naturally are for example brilliant off their legs but a walking wicket on the off side. They then work at it. Maupay is the same, he is half a striker. He gets in positions, reads the play well, but my goodness, he cant hit a cows arse with a banjo. Now if a coach cant work on that to improve him, then I'd be looking at the point of paying the coach as well as looking at selling Maupay. The fault in Maupay's shooting is evident. He doesn't clock where the keeper is. So get drills together to improve his awareness by for example drills of shooting without looking at the ball. In the same way a cricket coach will drill a player to learn the off drive by throw downs. It's true, a coach can only improve to a certain degree, but they can improve the player, unless we have the wrong coach. Get him out there and bloody work on his finishing would be my message to the coaching team.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I really don't agree. I don't believe he is a bad footballer, but his finishing needs work. In cricket there are batting coaches, and they look at players who naturally are for example brilliant off their legs but a walking wicket on the off side. They then work at it. Maupay is the same, he is half a striker. He gets in positions, reads the play well, but my goodness, he cant hit a cows arse with a banjo. Now if a coach cant work on that to improve him, then I'd be looking at the point of paying the coach as well as looking at selling Maupay. The fault in Maupay's shooting is evident. He doesn't clock where the keeper is. So get drills together to improve his awareness by for example drills of shooting without looking at the ball. In the same way a cricket coach will drill a player to learn the off drive by throw downs. It's true, a coach can only improve to a certain degree, but they can improve the player, unless we have the wrong coach. Get him out there and bloody work on his finishing would be my message to the coaching team.

It's been a while admittedly, but my seat is right in front of the area they run through the shooting drills.
Invariably the strikers receive the ball set themselves and shoot. They score considerably more than they miss.

When we're back at matches properly, I'll take a look at Maupay particularly, and if he only manages 41% on target and less than 1 in 5 scored, in practice, I will concede the point.
But for now my view will remain that his issue is with the amount of time it takes him to decide on what he's going to do.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Err almost certainly not..

The argument against your theory is, I suspect, none of our strikers will have any problem beating the keeper in practice drills.
They have probably been doing that for 20 years and their muscle memory is as good as it's ever going to be.

The problem is, being ready for that opportunity and quick enough to execute that skill, against premier league defenders, in real match conditions.
More practice is likely to reinforce the idea that they have a split second more time than they will have during a match.

Or is this a parody account and I've been whooshed?

If you have, then so have I.

 

[b.w.2.]

This.

And I stand by my opinion that people saying "we need to invest more" surely are free to do so themselves, I doubt TB would say no to any donor offering the club £100m or so. To demand that he should invest more money from his own wallet than he already is is a very weird behaviour and they urgently need to be taught some manners. Tony is not asset stripping or making tons of millions from this club, he is giving it money, people have no right to ask for more. If they say the club "should" invest more money, they could at least stop their pathetic toe tapping and tell it like it really is - they would prefer Tony to go and some richer guy to take over

The "Potter out" and "everyone is shit" stuff dont bother me half as much as the ones saying "Tony needs to invest more money". I think its ****ish beyond belief. They should go with one of the three other options: invest the money yourself or be honest and say you want TB out or just shut the **** up and be happy that someone is already splashing a lot of cash on your club because very few football clubs out there is lucky enough to have someone like TB.

I want Tony to stay.

I am not going to shut up. This is a message board. I am as entitled to my opinion as you are.

I have explained why I think Tony should invest more. But you seem unable to make a coherent argument against mine. Rather you just got abusive.


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[b.w.2.]

Bar a handful of strikers in the league most are wasteful. Im sure United fans would describe Martial as wasteful, and Chelsea the same with Abraham, Aubameyang has been wasteful this season. Its not uncommon. If Maupay was a more clinical player & therefor had scored 15-20 last season, and already be on 10-15 this season then he'd probably be with a bigger club. This season the wastefulness seems to be more apparent because we started creating lots of chances. Hopefully some increased confidence and a little less tinkering from GP will help things. To help the conversion rate i'd love to see us bring in a specialist strikers coach.

I agree there is too much tinkering by Potter and a striker coach might work. But that wound mean investment! [emoji6]


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[Charity Shield 1910]

It's been a while admittedly, but my seat is right in front of the area they run through the shooting drills.
Invariably the strikers receive the ball set themselves and shoot. They score considerably more than they miss.

When we're back at matches properly, I'll take a look at Maupay particularly, and if he only manages 41% on target and less than 1 in 5 scored, in practice, I will concede the point.
But for now my view will remain that his issue is with the amount of time it takes him to decide on what he's going to do.

That tells me that they need to make shooting practice in training harder. In the same way at cricket, Paul Parker used to practice playing Hampshire (with Malcolm Marshall) by getting bowlers bowl at him off 18 yards instead of 22. Maupay and all of them take no account of the keepers positioning when they shoot, so coach them to do so. It's after all what a coach is paid to do. Make shooting harder in practice then it becomes easier in a game. That's the point of training, whether cricket or football. They have to recognise the problem and work to improve it on the training ground. Anyway that's my two penneth.

 

[b.w.2.]

Like Haller? Pepe? Brewster? Alexis Sanchez? Spending big doesn’t guarantee success.

Villa signed a whole bunch of players, not just Watkins.

Villa transformed their recruitment by sacking the guy who wasted over £100m. After their new recruitment regime was put in place they have bought extremely well


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[b.w.2.]

Exactly. We’re playing decent football, investing in young emerging players and largely holding our own in the Premier League. We’re Brighton and Hove Albion. If you want substantially more than this surely it’s time to give up watching football or support another club because you’ll get no happiness here.

Another ‘club can do no wrong, unable to think clearly’ poster


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[Raleigh Chopper]

I don't get that with Bissouma, so what ,he missed a couple but then scores, most of our other promising build ups end up with dithering about and not even a shot at goal.

I could have been mistaken but i am sure that he was not that happy about it.
I agree with you, we can't constantly try the same principals, mix it up, if you think you have a goal scoring opportunity take it, otherwise pass it.
I would have thought that Potter would have been happy enough with the build up play before Biss even got the ball, it was football porn.
Anyway watch his post match interview on MOTD see what you think.

 

[b.w.2.]

End of argument

Villa
Watkins is not even the main reason Villa are where they are. He has one more Prem goal than Maupay, I think.
Having Grealish/Traore/El ghazi chipping in with a further 14 or so is a bigger factor. Any idea how many goals our next 3 have?
Villa Spent £80m in the last window on transfer fees alone.
They also brought in Ross Barclay on top of having a pretty decent value squad in the first place.
Villa's overall investment (particularly wages) far outstrips ours.

Newcastle
Newcastle are going the wrong way at the moment, 4 losses after their draw with Liverpool.
They have scored 4 fewer goals than us over all.
Goal difference is -7 on us.
Callum Wilson has scored one more goal than Maupay and their next 3 goal scorers have managed just 4 goals

I wouldn't see them as an example of this strategy working, just yet.

Not far off; 9 for Watkins I believe. Can you imagine if we had Wilson AND Maupay, and Newcastle had neither? How many points do you think we would have then? How many would Newcastle have?

I stand by my argument


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[b.w.2.]

The true irony of this post is we are trying to follow a similar model to Brentford and Peterborough, signing young up and coming players (look at our u23 investment and the lines of Zeqirii, Lamptey, Caicedo) or undervalued cheaper options (Andone or a non striking option did be Veltman) to compete. The trouble is it’s bloody hard to do at an elite level and it takes time for players to come good.

Further irony in is being linked to Ivan Toney in the summer. I wonder what NSC would have made of us signing a player from league 1?

Toney is a great example of us not going for it when we probably should have. You can bet Brentford will AT LEAST double the money they spent on him.

Clever non-investment by us? I think not.


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[b.w.2.]

Or zero evidence of them not practising this?


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I see what I see in games. What do you see?


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[b.w.2.]

Boom. Exactly.

Exactly wrong


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[b.w.2.]

So true.

We are due to give some team an almighty walloping.
Even yesterday, as I said in the match day thread, we could have conceivably scored 5.

This is happening too often and becoming the norm psychologically. You do wonder, if we do suddenly have a couple of games where we convert and absolutely pulverise a team by 5 or 6, if may flick a switch mentally with our players. And let’s not forget, we have a very very young squad here. Aside from Dunk. even the most experienced (Welbeck, Lallana) are hardly playing.

If Potter can switch this mentality, we’ll be on the verge of something very special. Especially with the exciting team we’re building for next season.

We need to worry about this season. And next season will be the same unless we do something about our wasteful finishing


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