[Politics] Brexit

[DavidinSouthampton]

1. It is no longer the 'will of the people', in so far as ALL current polling suggests that a majority would rather remain.
2. This specific proposed deal was NEVER the 'will' of 'the people'.
3. I don't believe you, that you were ever a 'passionate remainer'.
4. Furthermore, I don't believe you about your reasons for your supposed turnabout. If you were genuinely somebody worried about 'underhand, dishonest tactics' then for the events of the last couple of years to have turned you TOWARDS the government's line of thinking, would be wholly unimaginable.

This with knobs on!!!!!!!!!
If anybody is underhand and dishonest, it is the current government and its leader...….. and Cummings.

 

[Eeyore]

Silly Tom. Everyone has known for at least two years, Steve Bray, is crowd funded into SODEM. A fact which is easily found.

That's not Mr Shouty Man, Steve Bray.

Also, as far as I'm aware, SODEM is a one man show. Happy to be proved wrong.

I do find his shouting disruptive and counter productive.

 

[Yoda]

But the 'new' deal is about 90% the same of the May deal. So they should definitely have read the May deal. Equally, it was only 110 pages - how long does it take to read 110 pages ?

Looks a bit more than 110 pages to me: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration

 

[vegster]

I did not type that as well you know. What I am saying is that MPs do not need days and weeks to consider the whole deal, as they have already had ample time to do that, the NI related stuff could and should be able to be concluded in a couple of days, thus enabling a meaningful vote.

To suggest otherwise is just another smokescreen. JC is a charlatan and a fraud,and hopefully very soon to be an historic failure.

The Northern Ireland issue highlights the need for genuine scrutiny and government accountability, the phoney deal deadline meant that many little acts of deviousness could be hidden within the WAB that might not have been picked up.

Interesting that Johnson wanted the deal passed by 31st October but was actively seeking to reduce parliamentary time to study it by illegally proroguing to prevent scrutiny when that failed it was given an unrealistic timetable.


"JC is a charlatan and a fraud,and hopefully very soon to be an historic failure " * see, Cameron, D , May, T, Johnson, B , stiff competition .

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

must have missed that, who said the Withdrawal Agreement would be the "easiest deal in history"

Plenty of people have made similar comments, but John Redwood in particular quoted something like it will be an easy deal because we hold all the good cards.

Edit: 17/07/2016 · Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.

 

[pb21]

But the 'new' deal is about 90% the same of the May deal. So they should definitely have read the May deal. Equally, it was only 110 pages - how long does it take to read 110 pages ?

What are the implications of a 110 page piece of legislation that is 10% different to one previous not agreed, albeit read.

Its not the reading that takes the time, its the understanding that does.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Now saying Tories + DUP = majority is very different from you initially saying “The Deal would have passed a year ago if the Tory ERG had voted for it”. Which is not correct.

The bottom line is May had the majority with DUP to get a Deal over the line irrespective of how the opposition mustered themselves - indeed, the DUP voted with her three times en masse - but it was the ERG that killed her.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Lots of confusion it seems about the Withdrawal Deal, and the Withdrawal Agreement Bill.

The second was what was being rushed through Parliament - including such gems as pretty much making the non-binding political declaration binding on the UK, also stopping MPs having a say on extending the transition period next year...

Lots of gremlins being sneaked in which are nothing to do with the actual agreement with the EU.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Oh look Julian Smith says they still haven't worked out forms or tariffs will exist when NI firms want to sell in to GB. And people want to wave this deal through and let the Tories make it up as they go along.

You've lost your heads.

 

[Pavilionaire]

What are the implications of a 110 page piece of legislation that is 10% different to one previous not agreed, albeit read.

Its not the reading that takes the time, its the understanding that does.

And the implementation of it, how it affects Scotland, Wales and NI separately etc.

It's a joke Boris even had the temerity to suggest this ridiculous timetable, and an even bigger joke that 5 Labour MPs voted for both the deal AND the ludicrous timetable.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

What are the implications of a 110 page piece of legislation that is 10% different to one previous not agreed, albeit read.

Its not the reading that takes the time, its the understanding that does.

Exactly, particularly if you don't trust the people who originated the document.

And it will refer to other documents, and will in places refer backwards or forwards to other places in the same document...….

 

[The Clamp]

must have missed that, who said the Withdrawal Agreement would be the "easiest deal in history"

Where did I say withdrawal agreement? You wouldn’t be putting words into other’s mouths now would you, pasta?

 

[Is it PotG?]

You wouldn’t be putting words into other’s mouths now would you, pasta?

Indeed no, that's your job.

 

[The Clamp]

Indeed no, that's your job.

Is it? Where have I done that? There really is no need with some of the utter tripe that comes out of most of the leavers on here

 

[Is it PotG?]

Is it? Where have I done that?

Do you HONESTLY think I keep a list of your posts and incidents of such?

Barking.

 

[Berty23]

But the 'new' deal is about 90% the same of the May deal. So they should definitely have read the May deal. Equally, it was only 110 pages - how long does it take to read 110 pages ?

Erm.....this bill was never shared with parliament. I can’t believe people are repeating this massive lie. It is amazing that people comment who don’t understand the process. This is not like reading a book. Each clause and sub clause will link to other laws and regulations so you need to cross reference and then check again. The idea that simply reading it is enough (as some seem to say in the media) is bizarre. It is incredibly complicated and MPs will need legal nods to help them through it. This is why so many look to Hilary Benn, Keir Starmer and Dominic grieve for a steer. They know what they are doing.

People like Andrew Bridgen who was discussing it on newsnight simply have no idea about what it actually means.

In fact it is doubtful that Boris does either!

 

[Rodney Thomas]

But the 'new' deal is about 90% the same of the May deal. So they should definitely have read the May deal. Equally, it was only 110 pages - how long does it take to read 110 pages ?

Is it not more a question of how long will it take to DEBATE and QUESTION the bill? That is whole point of parliament and they have decided they haven't been afforded the time to do that properly. I really don't understand how people think this is somehow unreasonable?

 

[beorhthelm]

Erm.....this bill was never shared with parliament. !

you mean this European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018?

the new bill looks largely amendments and additions to that previous bill.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Erm.....this bill was never shared with parliament. I can’t believe people are repeating this massive lie. It is amazing that people comment who don’t understand the process. This is not like reading a book. Each clause and sub clause will link to other laws and regulations so you need to cross reference and then check again. The idea that simply reading it is enough (as some seem to say in the media) is bizarre. It is incredibly complicated and MPs will need legal nods to help them through it. This is why so many look to Hilary Benn, Keir Starmer and Dominic grieve for a steer. They know what they are doing.

People like Andrew Bridgen who was discussing it on newsnight simply have no idea about what it actually means.

In fact it is doubtful that Boris does either!

The political commentator in the Guardian made the point about Saturday's business in Parliament that Keir Starmer, as so often, was the only contributor who made any sense. Whether you agree with him or not (which I do), he certainly knows what he is doing. He is a QC and a former Director of Public Prosecutions, after all.

 

[pastafarian]

Plenty of people have made similar comments, but John Redwood in particular quoted something like it will be an easy deal because we hold all the good cards.

Edit: 17/07/2016 · Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.

Ok, so we can eliminate John Redwood, it wasnt him that said the withdrawal agreement will be the "easiest deal in history"

The bottom line is May had the majority with DUP to get a Deal over the line irrespective of how the opposition mustered themselves - indeed, the DUP voted with her three times en masse - but it was the ERG that killed her.

The DUP voted all three times AGAINST Mays deal not with her.I see why you think it was solely down to the ERG killing her on the deal

Where did I say withdrawal agreement? You wouldn’t be putting words into other’s mouths now would you, pasta?

Then thats even more bizarre that you are referring to the post brexit trade deal and not the Withdrawal Agreement in the past tense “It was supposed to be the easiest deal in history”!!!!"
We havnt even commenced the trade talks yet