[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ilaterally-stop-brexit-process-eu-court-rules

“Scottish judges are to hold an emergency hearing in response to the ECJ ruling next week, chaired by Scotland’s most senior judge, Lord Carloway, the lord president, and two other judges, who now have to transpose it into domestic law.

Lawyers for the cross-party group of Scottish parliamentarians who took the case to Luxembourg are expected to argue it means the prime minister is lawfully able to cancel the article 50 process without needing new legislation.”

The main point of that article is that the UK can revoke A50 itself without EU permission being required ...... not that the action can be completed without an act of the UK parliament. I'll repeat - the ONLY thing that can overturn an act of the UK parliament is another act. Even one of the lawyers on that article says it gives 'MPs the option of revoking A50' - how do MPs revoke law ? They pass a new act of parliament.

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

Yes, that would be a start









And, with that, it's over and out from planet earth

Just as ridiculous as some of the crap you post with your fear campagin.

At least now you accept that planes won't be grounded on 29th March, and trade will continue albeit it maybe not as smoothly as it currently is for a short period.

Don't worry petal. The UK will be fine. If you want to panic and worry, panic and worry for what is left of the EU. They will be the main loser from Brexit. Just give it time.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Interesting ..... who is seeking the clarity and who is providing said clarity ?

I ask as at the moment the 29th March is set in stone via an act of Parliament and an act of Parliament can't be overturned without another act of Parliament. The government can't use Henry 8th powers to change it ..... Gina Miller ensured that ironically. The only get out would be if the original act had some mechanism in it to allow a change - i.e. if x happens then then y will be implemented and I haven't seen any media commentary of that being the case ( I'll admit to not having read the act myself although I doubt any posters on this thread have either ).

So to stop us leaving on the 29th one of the following has to happen :

1. A new referendum - let's stop this idiotic dressing it up as a 'Peoples Vote', it's a second referendum if it happens - and remain win. The referendum will need an act of parliament ( and personally I'm not sure there is a majority in favour in the house for it ) and then another act of Parliament will be required to enact the result. Not going to happen before the 29th March.

2. A50 is recinded for a short time or completely. This will change the date of leaving or mean we don't leave and so another act of Parliament will be required. Are there a majority of MPs in favour of doing this ...... remember regardless of their party they will each have to defend their decision to effectively ignore the first referendum result on the doorstep at the next GE and having done so without reconsulting the public. Could make for some very heated exchanges !!!!

3. A50 is extended. Once again, will need an act of Parliament unless there is a mechanism for it in the original act. Biggest problem being the EU - all 27 members would have to agree AND the EU have said it would only happen in the event of something significant happening such as a GE.

I do find it strange that remainers were all up in arms when it looked like the government were going to force through Brexit without Parliament approval but now they want to change/delay/halt Brexit without Parliament's say.

Are you 100% sure the government can't use Henry VIII powers to rescind or delay Article 50? After all, they've been in contempt of Parliament without censure.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Are you 100% sure the government can't use Henry VIII powers to rescind or delay Article 50? After all, they've been in contempt of Parliament without censure.

In theory I guess they could but it would leave the whole thing open to legal action from the Leave side in the same way Ms Miller ensured Parliament remained the decision maker with her action. Also remember if they do it would probably rip the Tories apart ..... they are stupid but I'm not sure they want to commit political suicide.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The main point of that article is that the UK can revoke A50 itself without EU permission being required ...... not that the action can be completed without an act of the UK parliament. I'll repeat - the ONLY thing that can overturn an act of the UK parliament is another act. Even one of the lawyers on that article says it gives 'MPs the option of revoking A50' - ow do MPs revoke law ? They pass a new act of parliament.

Yes. The main point is as you state. But it also mentions one group of Scottish lawyers believe no act is needed whilst another lawyer doesn’t. This situation is analogous to the original Gina Miller case where two sides interpreted a law differently and clarity and a final ruling was sought. I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In theory I guess they could but it would leave the whole thing open to legal action from the Leave side in the same way Ms Miller ensured Parliament remained the decision maker with her action. Also remember if they do it would probably rip the Tories apart ..... they are stupid but I'm not sure they want to commit political suicide.

They're doing that to themselves anyway.

 

[ManOfSussex]

The main point of that article is that the UK can revoke A50 itself without EU permission being required ...... not that the action can be completed without an act of the UK parliament. I'll repeat - the ONLY thing that can overturn an act of the UK parliament is another act. Even one of the lawyers on that article says it gives 'MPs the option of revoking A50' - ow do MPs revoke law ? They pass a new act of parliament.

If The Withdrawal Agreement is voted down, before March 29 we can Revoke Article 50 via a new act of parliament and buy time or go full on for no deal with no transition period, like a hypo-manic, sadomasochistic anarchist on Amphetamines.

1 new act of parliament v 800-1000 new statuary instruments required, several new pieces of primary legislation, numerous systems, processes, international and EU agreements to be replicated, and regulatory bodies to be set up, as well as the infrastructural requirements and staffing compliments to function as a country. All in less than 3 months.

A choice between being an international joke v being an international pariah.

Circa 100 ERG/No deal supporting oddball MP's v 500+ who are opposed to no deal.

I wonder what will happen if The Withdrawal Agreement is voted down.

 

[Two Professors]

For the record 2p, the breezy, dismissive comment you made was....

'I dare say some of your best European friends have been beaten up by Brexit supporters,and threatened with extradition.Tell us a story,Jackanory.' Apparently it was yesterday afternoon, so you seem to have short term memory loss issues.

If it wasn't about such a serious matter, your amnesia would be funny......

If you are not a troll,then what was CC's job before manager?

 

[Two Professors]

Yes, I chose the wrong word.

'Frog' is a purposely offensive word to use to describe French people. Xenophobic is probably correct for you.

So you are saying that all pig related food stuffs should not be sold or mentioned in the UK because in Saudi Arabia it offends. You best tell all the supermarkets and butchers to stop selling sausages and bacon etc.

Stop trying to muddy the waters to cover up your slur.

So now that my racism is off the agenda,let us return to your offensive user name.Perhaps if you you changed it to sizzling gammon it would not be hate speech any more,and could just go back to being a 'normal' troll.

 

[Baldseagull]

Interesting.
Are you siding with these so called red faced "Gammons" in thinking this piece is "Political correctness gone mad!",or do you think the author is correct in her view that Gammon in this context is a racial slur and hate speech?

I think it is a bit daft, but I would not get red in the face bemoaning her point of view. We could just go back to calling em ***** if Gammon is a problem?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If The Withdrawal Agreement is voted down, before March 29 we can Revoke Article 50 via a new act of parliament and buy time or go full on for no deal with no transition period, like a hypo-manic, sadomasochistic anarchist on Amphetamines.

1 new act of parliament v 800-1000 new statuary instruments required, several new pieces of primary legislation, numerous systems, processes, international and EU agreements to be replicated, and regulatory bodies to be set up, as well as the infrastructural requirements and staffing compliments to function as a country. All in less than 3 months.

A choice between being an international joke v being an international pariah.

Circa 100 ERG/No deal supporting oddball MP's v 500+ who are opposed to no deal.

I wonder what will happen if The Withdrawal Agreement is voted down.

Nobody knows ...... that's the point. Glad you agree with me that the 29th March can't be stopped or delayed without another act ..... some reality at last from a remainer rather than clutching at straws that A50 can just be revoked. May's deal won't pass but I also don't think there's a majority in favour of revoking A50. My best guess is that May will resign after the vote on her deal falls, Labour will win a no confidence vote forcing a GE and we'll end up with a hung parliament from said GE. A50 will be extended by default thanks to the GE.

 

[Baldseagull]

I'm afraid you can throw about much facts as you like on here about the WTO, but a number of members on have essentially been consumed by a cult, they don't want to understand how it works.

We have a number of countries that really don't like us and they really can really create big issues for us at the WTO. Then there's the US, country with which we have a large trade surplus via the EU's WTO arrangements. We will get completely screwed over if there's no deal.

No one had ever left a massive trading block before, yet alone in a cliff edge situation and completely ill prepared with it

I believe they have computer like brains and are running software installed by Rupert Murdoch that includes filters to reject text and speech which tries to alter the software, this can not be bypassed remotely over the internet, you have to get direct access to them and then you can punch information in.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Just as ridiculous as some of the crap you post with your fear campagin.

At least now you accept that planes won't be grounded on 29th March, and trade will continue albeit it maybe not as smoothly as it currently is for a short period.

Don't worry petal. The UK will be fine. If you want to panic and worry, panic and worry for what is left of the EU. They will be the main loser from Brexit. Just give it time.

I've never said that planes would stop flying or trade will stop

How far along are we with negotiations with the WTO??

How are we doing with the transition trade agreement?

So we make individual deals with countries we need to deal with.

What stops us importing and exporting everything via Switzerland?

Maybe we could save a lot of "Tariffs" by stopping unnecessary imports/exports.

All this little exchange has proven is that you have no idea how international trade currently operates, let alone what would happen in your preferred 'no deal' solution.

And, given that as you like to tell us, the business you own does $1M of imports per annum, and yet you have no idea of the what a 'no deal' would mean in international trade terms, it's probably very lucky for you that 'no deal' isn't going to happen

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you are not a troll,then what was CC's job before manager?

Drinking buddy of [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION]?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

At least now you accept that planes won't be grounded on 29th March.

But the EU have recently stated no UK airline will be allowed intra-EU flights in the event of no-deal. So some could be grounded.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nobody knows ...... that's the point. Glad you agree with me that the 29th March can't be stopped or delayed without another act ..... some reality at last from a remainer rather than clutching at straws that A50 can just be revoked. May's deal won't pass but I also don't think there's a majority in favour of revoking A50. My best guess is that May will resign after the vote on her deal falls, Labour will win a no confidence vote forcing a GE and we'll end up with a hung parliament from said GE. A50 will be extended by default thanks to the GE.

How does it get extended by default because of a general election?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But the EU have recently stated no UK airline will be allowed intra-EU flights in the event of no-deal. So some could be grounded.

Which is why EasyJet is now registered in Austria.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Nobody knows ...... that's the point. Glad you agree with me that the 29th March can't be stopped or delayed without another act ..... some reality at last from a remainer rather than clutching at straws that A50 can just be revoked. May's deal won't pass but I also don't think there's a majority in favour of revoking A50. My best guess is that May will resign after the vote on her deal falls, Labour will win a no confidence vote forcing a GE and we'll end up with a hung parliament from said GE. A50 will be extended by default thanks to the GE.

I'm not really interested in your point scoring/straw clutching with others on here in regards to how Article 50's revocation takes place, so leave me out of that, please. As for what will happen, this 'Managed no deal' nonsense being spouted by Brexit backing, posh accented, Tory Toffs with imperialistic,nostalgic, delusions of grandeur that people are falling for is just an unsustainable fantasy - '3 weeks maximum' is what's being said in Paris and Berlin before we come asking/begging for a Norway arrangement, if we end up going for it and want to be an international pariah, rather than an international embarrassment as we currently are, for the practical reasons I've said.

It's far easier for The UK to unilaterally revoke A50 via an act of parliament than seek an extension via agreement across The EU27. Revoking Article 50 also buys ourselves time and control of events, even if it's done on the basis of being time limited.

As you mentioned elections though, it looks a far more prudent decision by The Electoral Commission by the day to set aside the £829,000 for The European Elections in May that they did last year, as a contingency measure that they take place. .

Will they happen? As you say - Nobody knows ...... that's the point.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Which is why EasyJet is now registered in Austria.

Correct, they’re called EasyJet Europe and fly out of Austria. But it’s not just registering. There are other requirements. I know they have to be over 50% owned as well; they have been reworking their shareholding. They have also switched flights and operations out of the U.K. My usual flights to the AMEX are now operated by EasyJet Europe and none of the staff are Gatwick based now. Shame as I got to know a few of the crew. Crew are mainland Europeans.

 

[Baldseagull]

Nobody knows ...... that's the point. Glad you agree with me that the 29th March can't be stopped or delayed without another act ..... some reality at last from a remainer rather than clutching at straws that A50 can just be revoked. May's deal won't pass but I also don't think there's a majority in favour of revoking A50. My best guess is that May will resign after the vote on her deal falls, Labour will win a no confidence vote forcing a GE and we'll end up with a hung parliament from said GE. A50 will be extended by default thanks to the GE.

It can be amended to alter or remove the date, The act uses "exit day" throughout to describe when it's provisions will come into force, and defines this only once, in interpretation, as "29th March 2019 at 11pm", I don't think it would take much to change that single line to "a date to be decided"