[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

Or others making wisecracks about migrants drowning - it's such a charming thread.

Indeed - that was an awful post. I was just highlighting a poster bemoaning name calling who himself has used some very unpleasant terms.

 

[Hamilton]

The majority of voters in the referendum.

That's correct. And that's why I was careful to lead with the referendum result in my reply to you. It's a marginal 4 point difference. That is not a huge swing. (and that's ignoring the numbers that did not vote)

And let's remember the question. "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"

The answer was no. We should leave. How do we leave? That was never asked, so perhaps we should be more circumspect about that and take decisions that are in the interests of the people. The question was not, "Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union and adopt WTO tariffs?"

 

[beorhthelm]

Factor in the numbers that did not vote, and only 37% voted to leave the EU.

and less voted to remain. why drag up this daft old point? i agree it the result signaled a need for change, however the campaign was conducted and sold on the grounds that we would leave if we voted to do so, Cameron was quite clear about that, regardless of the exact legal standing. so people didnt vote to send a signal, they voted to leave. how are we supposed to recognise their views while not leaving?

 

[dingodan]

What was their will on the customs union? Like Turkey? Like Norway?

They voted to leave the EU. So that the UK wouldn't be subject to laws not made by the representatives of the people of this country in our parliament.

 

[Hamilton]

and less voted to remain. why drag up this daft old point? i agree it the result signaled a need for change, however the campaign was conducted and sold on the grounds that we would leave if we voted to do so, Cameron was quite clear about that, regardless of the exact legal standing. so people didnt vote to send a signal, they voted to leave. how are we supposed to recognise their views while not leaving?

You have 3 children.

1 thinks they want to go to the zoo
1 thinks they want to go to the cinema
1 doesn't care where they go

Where do you go?

I am not saying we are not leaving the EU, but nobody voted with enough conviction for us to throw ourselves off the economic cliff.

 

[pastafarian]

Or others making wisecracks about migrants drowning - it's such a charming thread.

Yeah bloody Merkel grrrrrrr.....so much to answer for
Lets not forget the class warriors full of bile either, thats a special chip on the shoulder hate

 

[ManOfSussex]

Yeah bloody Merkel grrrrrrr.....so much to answer for
Lets not forget the class warriors full of bile either, thats a special chip on the shoulder hate

Yes, but I wouldn't actually wish you to, or blame it on someone, or joke about you drowning though - big difference.

 

[dingodan]

That's correct. And that's why I was careful to lead with the referendum result in my reply to you. It's a marginal 4 point difference. That is not a huge swing. (and that's ignoring the numbers that did not vote)

And let's remember the question. "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"

The answer was no. We should leave. How do we leave? That was never asked, so perhaps we should be more circumspect about that and take decisions that are in the interests of the people. The question was not, "Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union and adopt WTO tariffs?"

No you are right, that wasn't the question. The question was should we leave, and the answer was yes. It wasn't maybe, or it depends.

 

[Hamilton]

They voted to leave the EU. So that the UK wouldn't be subject to laws not made by the representatives of the people of this country in our parliament.

This is a myth.

The representatives of this country took the decision that the interests of the UK were best served by allowing for certain decisions to be regulated in the EU where other UK representatives also resided. That was a sovereign decision that we took.

We have now taken the sovereign decision to leave. The fact that we are leaving lays to bed the myth that we had no sovereign power. We had loads of influence inside the EU - we just threw it all away.

 

[pastafarian]

What was their will on the customs union? Like Turkey? Like Norway?

As you know, being followed through by May and recently confirmed by Corbyn the will of the people was to leave THE Customs Union

Both of them havnt pulled it out of a hat,

 

[Hamilton]

No you are right, that wasn't the question. The question was should we leave, and the answer was yes. It wasn't maybe, or it depends.

Yes. Nobody is debating that point.

Did the question provide a clear steer as to how the UK should leave the EU or what it's relationship with the EU should be like post 2019? I'm assuming that if parliament was to decide that staying in the customs union was the right thing to do then we would be happy with that? After all, that would be a sovereign decision made by our elected political leaders.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Really? .... "No doubt J Shit Tory Cheerboy will say 'Rubbish', though."

And, in context

Said NSC's EU spokesman/bedwetter in chief.

I can see why so many Remainers think you are a

"No doubt J Shit Tory Cheerboy will say 'Rubbish', though."

Yay .. another unpatriotic far left apologist troll joins this thread. Just what we need.

Anyway, it certainly wasn't me insulting anyone

 

[dingodan]

This is a myth.

The representatives of this country took the decision that the interests of the UK were best served by allowing for certain decisions to be regulated in the EU where other UK representatives also resided. That was a sovereign decision that we took.

We have now taken the sovereign decision to leave. The fact that we are leaving lays to bed the myth that we had no sovereign power. We had loads of influence inside the EU - we just threw it all away.

Wow.

If we stay in the EU, we can choose the number of migrants we want to allow in from EU countries then, right?

We can fish as much as we want in our own waters, right?

We can do trade deals with another nations, right?

If I decide to let you run my life and make decisions for me, does that then mean that it's me who has the power? Since I made that decision all by my sovereign self? No it means I had the power and gave it away.

 

[ManOfSussex]

We can fish as much as we want in our own waters, right?

Is the Icelandic exclusion area being reduced when we leave then?

 

[pastafarian]

Yes, but I wouldn't actually wish you to, or blame it on someone, or joke about you drowning though - big difference.

Merkels policy of being a drowning enabler is no joke, it was vile. No doubt you were vocal in distancing yourself from it. You are lucky you made the right choice, those that supported it have to live with the guilt of what happened........shameful.

 

[dingodan]

Yes. Nobody is debating that point.

Did the question provide a clear steer as to how the UK should leave the EU or what it's relationship with the EU should be like post 2019? I'm assuming that if parliament was to decide that staying in the customs union was the right thing to do then we would be happy with that? After all, that would be a sovereign decision made by our elected political leaders.

It would also be making us subject to jurisdictions outside this country and laws not made by the representatives of the people of this country in our parliament, so no.

It would be a "sovereign" decision, to cede sovereignty, which would go against the will of the majority of people who voted in the referendum.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Merkels policy of being a drowning enabler is no joke, it was vile. No doubt you were vocal in distancing yourself from it. You are lucky you made the right choice, those that supported it have to live with the guilt of what happened........shameful.

Fortunately for me quite a few other posters have already called you various names this morning in response to your rampage on this thread which saves me the bother of repeating any of them in response to the above.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Just watching Tim Martin of 'Spoons on TV, Goodness me: the guy doesn't even understand the questions. Is this the face of Brexit? Can't they find anyone else from the business community who can string a sentence together in favour of Brexit? He actually looks forward to a flood of cheap imports on 'Day 1' without quite grasping

a) the impact on the value of sterling
b) the job losses
c) that fact that no deals could possibly be set up by then (if ever) with new trade partners

Bloody hell, your heart sinks.....................

 

[Hamilton]

It would also be making us subject to jurisdictions outside this country and laws not made by the representatives of the people of this country in our parliament, so no.

It would be a "sovereign" decision, to cede sovereignty, which would go against the will of the majority of people who voted in the referendum.

No it would not. The question was not "Should every political, economic, social, environmental or legal decision that affects the UK be made in parliament?" That's a different question. If parliament decides that it is in the interests of the UK for certain decisions to be made elsewhere, then that is a sovereign decision.

We are not about to give up our seat on the UN security council just because decisions made in the UN are not made by parliamentarians in the UK are we? I know that is a whole different kettle of fish, but it shows how interconnected the world is. No country is an island, ironically.

 

[Baldseagull]

They voted to leave the EU. So that the UK wouldn't be subject to laws not made by the representatives of the people of this country in our parliament.

So if we did it Swiss style, would that suit you? Their parliament votes on bits of EU law if they want to incorporate them or not, or is any law that exists somewhere else first or whose origins are not British, not allowed?