Term time Dad loses in the Supreme Court

[Thunder Bolt]

Did a little bit of research after I posted and the 2 councils local to me, Calderdale and Kirklees, fined 3446 parents/guardians in the 15/16 school year.

That doesn't surprise me. My children went to school in the Kirklees area, and there were problems with SOME parents.

 

[nwgull]

Presume if you are fined you have a criminal record which might be a problem looking for work or even travelling abroad.

You get one if you're fined twice.

To clarify something else, the fine is £60 per child, per parent for each occasion that they're taken out of school. So a family of 4 would be fined £240.

As for people questioning weather teachers work as many hours per year as an average office worker, I have lived with 3 different teachers in my lifetime - my mum and an ex girlfriend (both secondary) and my current girlfriend (primary) - and I can tell you that they all worked far more hours in a year than I do. I would not want their jobs for twice the salary.

 

[Albion in the north]

The whole story should have been chase the form up with the school office several times, book an appointment with the head if necessary. Form tutor can give their opinion that they don't mind but clearly the school's decision. In terms of priorities, let's be fair low on a heads list of things to do, so I think it would have been reasonable to chase prior to realising you didn't have a decision the day before.

Said like a true school governor. My time spent chasing up the schools lack of efficiency is less important than the time it would have taken for the school to reply in plenty of time? By the way, you have no idea what I do for a living but I bet I earn a lot less than a teacher for working just as hard. And we had 2 weeks in Spain and that long weekend in Rome for Holidays last year. And thats my decision in life. And Ive never moaned about it and definitely wouldnt strike about it. Its a work/life balance thing.

 

[drew]

The whole story should have been chase the form up with the school office several times, book an appointment with the head if necessary. Form tutor can give their opinion that they don't mind but clearly the school's decision. In terms of priorities, let's be fair low on a heads list of things to do, so I think it would have been reasonable to chase prior to realising you didn't have a decision the day before.

The had a written request with the dates on. Someone at the school would have know the time critical element and they cocked up. Common sense would have been to accept the situation but no, they impose a requirement relating to sick notes which now adds pressure to another public service but maybe the Head doesn't worry about that!!!!

 

[Albion in the north]

That doesn't surprise me. My children went to school in the Kirklees area, and there were problems with SOME parents.

Im sure there were and I also imagine the problem parents stuck out a mile. Unfortunately with the common sense now removed from some parts of society we all have to be tarred with the same brush.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Said like a true school governor. My time spent chasing up the schools lack of efficiency is less important than the time it would have taken for the school to reply in plenty of time? By the way, you have no idea what I do for a living but I bet I earn a lot less than a teacher for working just as hard. And we had 2 weeks in Spain and that long weekend in Rome for Holidays last year. And thats my decision in life. And Ive never moaned about it and definitely wouldnt strike about it. Its a work/life balance thing.

Yes, spoken like someone who gives up precious free time for free to help their local school - and you choose to use that against me. I guess that sums the discussion up.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

As I said in my original post, 99% of students will be affected negatively, in an academic sense, by having time off school, yes.

There are a tiny number of pupils who either find school and academia easy or have the wherewithal and drive to make up for lost time, but I promise you that these pupils are an absolute minority.

Now, the reality is that the one hypothetical four year old you're discussing may fall within the 1% who can cope, but that's missing the overall point of opening the floodgates. Most children are negatively affected by absence from school and their grades are usually represented by this over the long term. I was actually a secondary school teacher, so I can't tell you from experience how primary school children are affected specifically, but I can give you numerous examples of students of mine that missed lessons and suffered as a result grade wise.

So in that regard, I stand by my initial standpoint about the decision. Childrens' grades are generally worse when they miss school. Holidays in school time make up 25% of missed lessons. Ergo, it is a big causer of absence. If parents believe that their children would benefit more from being on holiday than at school, then so be it. Pay the fine, go on holiday and shut up. After all, the fine is usually tiny anyway compared to the money you'd have saved by going in term time. And let's be honest, that's all this is actually about - saving parents money.

Ok fair enough.

we always took our two out of school the last two weeks in June when they were in juniors and one ended up with a first class honours from Southampton Uni and works in service management in a company running NHS services and gets highly paid for it, the other is a lead genius for apple. Perhaps we were lucky then.

I on the other hand went to 9 schools in my childhood a school my father could never settle in a job and came out with 5 o levels and one a level....only really getting decent qualifications some 40 years later through a BA from the OU in Classics.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Just don't have kids.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Hampster Gull]

Good. How else are kids gong to learn that the world doesnt revolve around them, spoilt brats

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Ok fair enough.

we always took our two out of school the last two weeks in June when they were in juniors and one ended up with a first class honours from Southampton Uni and works in service management in a company running NHS services and gets highly paid for it, the other is a lead genius for apple. Perhaps we were lucky then.

I on the other hand went to 9 schools in my childhood a school my father could never settle in a job and came out with 5 o levels and one a level....only really getting decent qualifications some 40 years later through a BA from the OU in Classics.

I missed two whole terms aged 8 when I had glandular fever, but still passed my 11+ to go to grammar school.

 

[Wilko]

i didn't say they should. you said they have 40 days holiday, while anyone can work out that 13 weeks is 65 days. so its your inconsistency, or different scenario to normal (public school? foreign school) that needs to be explained.

No, I did not say teachers get 40 days a year. Read my post. I said I get 40 days a year.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

SELFISH PARENTS WHO WANT A HOLDAY AT ANYONE'S EXPENSE
regards
DR

 

[Yoda]

i didn't say they should. you said they have 40 days holiday, while anyone can work out that 13 weeks is 65 days. so its your inconsistency, or different scenario to normal (public school? foreign school) that needs to be explained.

I've not really read through much of this thread today but OMFG

I am getting really wound by idiotic comments like this.

Do you REALLY think that a teacher is swanning around doing the grand sum of F-all for 65 days of the year?

My mother was a Governor/Teaching assistant at a School I used to go to. The amount of School Holiday days I LOST due to having to go in with her to help out, get class rooms ready, plan things with teachers & the Head etc, etc is very, VERY misplaced.

 

[drew]

Ok fair enough.

we always took our two out of school the last two weeks in June when they were in juniors and one ended up with a first class honours from Southampton Uni and works in service management in a company running NHS services and gets highly paid for it, the other is a lead genius for apple. Perhaps we were lucky then.

I on the other hand went to 9 schools in my childhood a school my father could never settle in a job and came out with 5 o levels and one a level....only really getting decent qualifications some 40 years later through a BA from the OU in Classics.

That's all well and good but had they stayed in school, according to some, they could have done even better!!!!!!

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I think parents should be allowed to have common sense. By all means go after the persistent truants, but to prosecute parents for taking a child to their grandfather's funeral is ludicrous.
There are compromises, but some schools aren't doing that.

Most would be allowed the day off for a funeral. And most parents would call in sick for that anyway. This case isn't about that. It's about actual holidays that cause students to miss a substantial amount of time. And yes, a week of school is substantial.

Unfortunately, your first point is probably the real reason the decision was the correct one. Most parents have no common sense and, unfortunately, most parents don't actually have their children's best interests at heart. I know that will be debated, but I could tell story after story about parental actions that were detrimental to their children, as I'm sure most teachers could.

 

[beorhthelm]

No, I did not say teachers get 40 days a year. Read my post. I said I get 40 days a year.

now i was quite prepared to apologise such a silly misreading, so i went back and found this:

No, I did not say that. We have longer holidays but the average working days and work outside of school is much longer than many other jobs. If I compare my job working in an office to teaching for example:

Office job- 9 to 5 with a lunch break, no work outside of those hours. Average 7 hours a day. 25 days holiday a year

Teaching job - 7-6 with a 30 min lunchbreak. Additional duties. Evening marking, planning and preparation. Average 10-12 hours a day. 40 days holiday a year.

so i dont stand corrected, you said teaching jobs have 40 days holiday. own it.

 

[beorhthelm]

I've not really read through much of this thread today but OMFG

I am getting really wound by idiotic comments like this.

Do you REALLY think that a teacher is swanning around doing the grand sum of F-all for 65 days of the year?

maybe you should read through and find someone saying that, not pick up on my question that didnt.

though you are again highlighting the contradiction: if teacher are not on holiday in school holidays, why are training days in term time? my position is that as they are on holiday, the training must unfortunatly be in term. if you say they are not on holiday, why does the term lose those days when they could occur the week before/after in teachers non-holidays?

 

[Yoda]

Maybe you should read through and find someone saying that, not pick up on my question that didn't.

Not directly they have not, but it's the way it is being implied.

Though you are again highlighting the contradiction: If teachers are not on holiday in school holidays, why are training days in term time? My position is that as they are on holiday, the training must unfortunately be in term. If you say they are not on holiday, why does the term lose those days when they could occur the week before/after in teachers non-holidays?

I can't answer that as I do not know, but perhaps some reasons are: There are not enough trainers to cover every school in the Country? Who ever is doing the training don't give enough notice and the school/teachers have already set their plans out for the year? Teachers actually having holiday booked for when they want to come? Etc... After all that is how far in advance they have to plan things. Just guessing here. There could be a number of reasons.

 

[Drebin]

My two pennies worth as a teacher in Norway (so my experiences come from different system/authority).

Hope to enlighten some of the ignorance on the thread.
1. Teachers don't work less hours than a typical office job. They just have more flexible working hours and are expected to be flexible themselves. As a secondary school teacher I work 35 hours some weeks and 50-55 hours other weeks. For example I worked for 12 today but other days will be shorter than the norm.The p*ssing contest on here about who works more is pointless.
2. Inset days are just as much work as normal teaching days. If an inset day falls on a day when I've got most planning time between lessons then poor me. I just have to use my free time making up the work.
3. I don't support the argument of cheaper holidays, but limited holidays in term time don't do much harm. Our head teacher is quite easy going about it BUT we give the parent the responsibility of making sure the pupil doesn't miss out on important work. I had a pupil spend a week in turkey last week and her mum called me and asked if the girl could take some work with her. That's because she knows that if her daughters next grade in my subject is crap it's her fault.

 

[Rowdey]

Have you ever heard the phrase 'read the whole question before you start your answer' or something very similar? Well, in this case, read the whole post. He played by the rules and was treated dismissively by the school who should have responded far sooner than the day before they were due to go especially as the form tutor was aware and had indicated they didn't think there would be a problem. Then to come back with a petty rule about obtaining a sick note from a Dr which affects the amount of time GPs have to treat others.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/569881/Sick-notes-wasting-GPs-time-doctors-schools-change-rules

Perhaps if his daughter has sickness or diarrhea then he should ignore the normal 48 hour rule and get her into school asap.

Not really, as that would mean asking the school if he can take time off, before he booked the holiday, wouldn't it ?