US election (merged threads)

[vegster]

I wouldn't have voted for the nutter either but it seems increasingly that a number of people are all for democracy right up to the moment they don't get the answer they want...

Puts me in mind of Nigel Farage,he said that if the referendum vote had been 52/48% to Remain he would have carried on campaigning to exit.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I am genuinely scared by the possible implications of Trump in the White house.[/B]

For sure Trump will shoot off at the mouth. But Congress has to approve his head-mentalness. Obama has been unable to secure any kind of sensible , say, Gun Control concession. Trump's looney-tune soundbites like building a Mexican Wall and making Mexico pay for it might have gained him muppet votes, but that's never going to happen. He'd be better off building a Canada wall to stop his sane countrymen FLEEING.

Besides, he won't be able to last six months before grabbing his secretary's pussy and being kicked out of office

 

[alfredmizen]

Are they taking it too far ?? Well these rocket scientists are , but I'll guarantee it wonk make any major news channels, after all it's only a thick white "racist" trump supporter being attacked by justifiably concerned minority voters.

https://cdn-e1.streamable.com/video...2033_5657ee975f77fe990d1de5b2b5ed3b4696545f9e

 

[The_Viper]

Protestors are a bunch of bigots tbh, maybe they should look closer to home as to why their election failed them.

 

[The Clamp]

Are these protestors out in force about the voting systems outside of election times or just when it doesn't yield the result they want?

 

[symyjym]

This is a bit longer but also very interesting.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

The democracy that we have is one where we don't know which nutter we will get every four or five years. Our democracy is a schizophrenic one. One minute we can be doing a deal with Gadaffi, the next minute we are helping mobs lynch him, and people like Cameron rejoicing to the fact.

Our democracy is seen as dangerous and unstable to other countries around the world and rightly so.

I know Putin is not liked but if Russia went to our democratic ways I would be far more fearful of them. With heads of state or dictators as the west likes to call them, there is at least some stability and continuity so we always know where they stand. By all means have democratically elected PM's, but under someone else who can keep them in line when there are signs of madness.

 

[Braggfan]

I wouldn't have voted for the nutter either but it seems increasingly that a number of people are all for democracy right up to the moment they don't get the answer they want...

Freedom to protest is the cornerstone of any democracy. If you don't like something you should have the right to protest. Elections and Voting aren't the only aspects to living in a democracy.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It's actually happened twice in the UK since WW2. Ted Heath's Conservatives got some 200,000 more votes than Harold Wilson's Labour in 1974, but Wilson had a majority of 3. Too slim to govern effectively, which is why there was another election later that year, in which Labour came out top in votes cast and seats won.

In a way, that was payback for 1951, when Churchill's Tories polled around 200,000 fewer votes than Attlee's Labour, but won a majority of 17 seats.

Going back further, Ramsay MacDonald's Labour were the beneficiaries in 1929 despite polling, again, some 200,000 fewer votes than Stanley Baldwin's Conservatives, and in 1874 -- when suffrage was much more restricted -- Disraeli's Conservatives beat Gladstone's Liberals to a majority despite polling fewer votes.

Thanks for that, very interesting and glad to be put right!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Are these protestors out in force about the voting systems outside of election times or just when it doesn't yield the result they want?

Flipping heck! I agree with you!

 

[Baldseagull]

You spend a month solid on identity politics and smear campaigns regardless of who wins they will be seen as evil incarnate, ok let them blow of steam, if they go to far its skull cracking time.

To many sheeple on here led by the MSM, they kept this quiet..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/2/donald-trump-holds-high-flag-gay-equality/

Probably did him a huge favour that that went unnoticed by most, he would have lost a lot of those Bible nuts over that.

 

[highflyer]

For sure Trump will shoot off at the mouth. But Congress has to approve his head-mentalness. Obama has been unable to secure any kind of sensible , say, Gun Control concession. Trump's looney-tune soundbites like building a Mexican Wall and making Mexico pay for it might have gained him muppet votes, but that's never going to happen. He'd be better off building a Canada wall to stop his sane countrymen FLEEING.

Besides, he won't be able to last six months before grabbing his secretary's pussy and being kicked out of office

Aye - which is why i said t will probably be Ok in the end. But the implications of it going wrong are major.
The role of Russia in getting him elected, and what that means now is also a key question...At any other time I'd dismiss this as loony internet conspiracy. But they have actually said they did get involved ('helped with wikileaks') so f*ck knows!

 

[The Clamp]

Flipping heck! I agree with you!

2016 eh! A year for surprises!

 

[Baldseagull]

Are these protestors out in force about the voting systems outside of election times or just when it doesn't yield the result they want?

Equally, I wonder how many that voted leave because the EU is not democratic enough, bothered to have their say in the AV referendum.

 

[Megazone]

2016 eh! A year for surprises!

David Icke predicted it would be the year of great change

 

[Billy the Fish]

this is an interesting read.

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/his...ext-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.z1xicm9ih

This is a bit longer but also very interesting.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

Both very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I haven't got time to get to the end of both, but one observation about the first one - he's saying we're approaching the end of a cycle and a large social fracture is inevitable, I think he should've kept it factual rather than taking an anti-brexit and anti-Trump bias.
If he's right and change is inevitable then things like Brexit and Trump are just a symptom rather than the root cause, you have to look at the conditions that allowed these events to happen in the first place. From what I've read of your 2nd link, it's tries to explain this side of it a bit better.
If he's right then something is going to get us sooner or later. I think it's more likely to be economic factors this time rather than war or disease, bearing in mind the population is growing exponentially, we've got much better medicine and public opinion in western countries is largely anti-war since the latest middle east conflicts. If I had to gamble I'd put my money on economic collapse resulting in widespread poverty.

Looking forward to reading the rest after work

 

[Stat Brother]

Today I was listening to (black) former news anchor Leon Harris debating the election with Huffington Post head honco Howard Fineman.

Leon was apoplectic about the result, as he discussed it with middle aged white men of stature.

He was adamant that the America he experiences every day was finally there for all to see.
Making the point that 'white' America had given an inch and got Obama, so is now taking back a mile with trump.

Howard wasn't prepared to go down the race route, highlighting great swathes of people in the rust belt who now feel like 2nd class citizens, through unemployment and poor education.
Prompting Leon to point out that makes 'us' 3rd class.

One of his other lines was 'what if Obama had said any one negative statement, verbatim that Trump has made, would he have got elected?'


The predominantly black American sports, basketball and football, are already talking negatively about President elect Trump, seeing it as a continuation of the Black Lives Matter campaign.


The presenter Tony Kornheiser was amazed Trump received 30% of the Hispanic vote.
This was chalked up as 'I'm all right, Jack' voting, with a lot of people pulling the ladder up behind them.

 

[Easy 10]

So you think if a powerful person airs the views he has people should not say something or protest about what they have said? You think people should just shut up, bend over and take it if someone with power displays such abhorrent views?

Were they protesting about what he has said ? Looks to me like they were just protesting about their country electing him - which IS pointless. Barn door. Bolted horse.

Perhaps they should have had their marches and protests when he was selected as the Republian candidate to run for the Oval Office. I didn't see anyone out on the streets protesting then.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Equally, I wonder how many that voted leave because the EU is not democratic enough, bothered to have their say in the AV referendum.

We were offered a second rate av. It's no wonder hardly anyone voted.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Were they protesting about what he has said ? Looks to me like they were just protesting about their country electing him - which IS pointless. Barn door. Bolted horse.

Perhaps they should have had their marches and protests when he was selected as the Republian candidate to run for the Oval Office. I didn't see anyone out on the streets protesting then.

Spot on. Disagreeing with policies is one thing but all this 'we don't accept the result' is nonsense.

 

[beorhthelm]

...The reason Californian and Texan votes are worth less is because their electoral college always ends with the same result, democrat and republican respectively. An extra vote for either in these states is not worth the same as an extra vote in a swing state like Florida. That is undemocratic. Florida has been won by margins of less than six points in every election since 1996 (which is as far back as I can find).

Why do you think Clinton and Trump prioritised campaigning in Florida and the rust belt states? Because those votes are more important. Therefore those votes ARE worth more. They must be, because Trump won with less votes than Clinton, that cannot happen unless some votes are worth more than others.

the position of California and Texas is not as assured as you make out, go back and see that Reagan won California, while Texas voted for Carter and was traditionally a Democrat state (i think theres deeper political history around the parties shifting there). what you mean is they are worth more in this election. well that relative to the prevailing policitcs of the day, if everyone took the opinion "my vote doesnt count" selected states (or seats same applies here), they would suddenly find the certainties erode.

Democracy only means equal votes in a very pure, literal interpretation, few countries formally describe themselves or their political system as such. its usually "Democratic Republic", its runs on democratic principles, not literal Democracy (which would be frankly ungovernable in the modern age and population sizes.