[Politics] Brexit

[Notters]

It's looking likely that a General Election could be called next year.

Would love it if we ended up with a Liberal Democrat government. INCREDIBLY unlikely, but it would be hilarious.

 

[beorhthelm]

Could the final decision end up with European court of justice?

no, and suggestions about this are just fishing. the Supreme Court was established specifically to be the final stage of appeal in the UK, and it would clearly be absurd for the government to refer their appeal there should they lose.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Would love it if we ended up with a Liberal Democrat government. INCREDIBLY unlikely, but it would be hilarious.

After their behaviour at Falmer?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Would love it if we ended up with a Liberal Democrat government. INCREDIBLY unlikely, but it would be hilarious.

Our local Conservative MP is a Brexiter, but it wouldn't take much of a swing back to the Lib Dems, and now Norman Baker is out of the way, who knows?

 

[Gwylan]

But surely the role of an MP is more than simply representing the wishes of his constituency. It's more complicated than that. Many have tried to define representative democracy but Edmund Burke's views are always given huge weight.

He said this: To deliver an opinion, is the right of all men; that of constituents is a weighty and respectable opinion, which a representative ought always to rejoice to hear; and which he ought always most seriously to consider. But authoritative instructions; mandates issued, which the member is bound blindly and implicitly to obey, to vote, and to argue for, though contrary to the clearest conviction of his judgment and conscience,--these are things utterly unknown to the laws of this land, and which arise from a fundamental mistake of the whole order and tenor of our constitution.

Burke also had a warning to MPs who wanted to follow the popular vote.

"But when the leaders choose to make themselves bidders at an auction of popularity, their talents, in the construction of the state, will be of no service. They will become flatterers instead of legislators; the instruments, not the guides, of the people. If any of them should happen to propose a scheme of liberty, soberly limited, and defined with proper qualifications, he will be immediately outbid by his competitors, who will produce something more splendidly popular"

Utter rubbish. We fought a civil war in order for Parliament to win the right to make the laws of this land. It is not for the likes of Theresa May to bypass Parliament over something as crucial as the trigger for Brexit.

I will abide by the decision reached by Parliament over the invoking of Article 50 and if that means they vote to invoke it then as a citizen of a Parliamentary democracy then so be it.
.

Well said. I'm frankly appalled at the number of Brexiters on here moaning about this. One of the most compelling reasons to vote to leave the EU was to restore parliamentary democracy and to end rule by diktat - that was certainly one of the main reasons for my voting leave. Those who are now complaining about the primacy of parliamentary rule should take a hard look at themselves. Just what sort of government would they like? One that can ride roughshod over parliament? One that can disobey the laws of the land? It's not an appealing prospect

 

[Notters]

After their behaviour at Falmer?

Ah this old chestnut again. Yes, we've had rotten luck with them, particularly Normal Baker (otherwise a good MP) and of course David Bellotti. That doesn't mean the party as a whole should be shunned.

 

[cunning fergus]

Utter rubbish. We fought a civil war in order for Parliament to win the right to make the laws of this land. It is not for the likes of Theresa May to bypass Parliament over something as crucial as the trigger for Brexit.

I will abide by the decision reached by Parliament over the invoking of Article 50 and if that means they vote to invoke it then as a citizen of a Parliamentary democracy then so be it.

As for sovereignty, how the Leave campaign had the temerity to link Leave with a preservation of sovereignty, then to seek to bypass Parliament in a matter as important as this is duplicitous in the extreme.

Utter rubbish, we fought a civil war because the English Parliamentarians didn't want it or England to be ruled by a King with absolute power to be in thrall to continental Catholicism and the Papacy.

if you think Oliver Cromwell's parliamentarian ideals are being served by this episode you are gravely mistaken.

You need to check out how he treated those in his own army when they demanded suffrage in Putney church.

0/10

 

[ManOfSussex]

Ah this old chestnut again. Yes, we've had rotten luck with them, particularly Normal Baker (otherwise a good MP) and of course David Bellotti. That doesn't mean the party as a whole should be shunned.

Lets see how they get on at the Richmond Park by-election first.

 

[marshy68]

Interesting question and one often overlooked. Stopping Freedom of Movement (and its cousin European Citizenship) is presented as a prize by Leave campaigners but for many it's a price. Different members of my wider family are already seeing opportunities (work, business and studying) clouding over as a result of its possible ending.

It was the major reason why I voted to remain. My partner is French my daughter is half French and we wanted to be able to move freely within the EU and afford the work and to live opportunities within the EU that we currently/used to have. I don't know what will change in the future, but currently the one silver lining is as my daughter has French Nationality she will be able to move around Europe with minimal disruption.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Utter rubbish, we fought a civil war because the English Parliamentarians didn't want it or England to be ruled by a King with absolute power to be in thrall to continental Catholicism and the Papacy.

if you think Oliver Cromwell's parliamentarian ideals are being served by this episode you are gravely mistaken.

You need to check out how he treated those in his own army when they demanded suffrage in Putney church.

0/10

So if we'd just let landowners vote in the EU referendum what do you think the outcome would have been given those lovely farming subsidies?

 

[Gwylan]

You need to check out how he treated those in his own army when they demanded suffrage in Putney church.

That's a rather incomplete reading of the Putney debates - the argument between the adherents of universal suffrage and those who believed that parliament should be for landowners only was unresolved when the king escaped - the New Model Army then had other things to think about. Yes, it's true that the latter view held but there weren't wide scale persecutions of those who held a contrary view - apart from the ones who took it further such as the Diggers and Levellers.

But, the view on both sides of the debate was on the supremacy of parliament - the arguments were about how that parliament should be chosen

 

[Simster]

Lets see how they get on at the Richmond Park by-election first.

Looks tight if the bookies are anything to go by (they usually are but as we all know, NOT always)

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/richmond-park-by-election/winning-party

In truth it would need an extraordinary swing for the LibDems to take this one:

1) Conservative Zac Goldsmith 34,404 58.2%
2) Liberal Democrat Robin Meltzer 11,389 19.3%

 

[ofco8]

If Parliament goes against the will of the people then good luck to the sitting MPs.

Those that don't go along with the wishes of their constituents will either be de-selected or voted out at the next General Election.

 

[GT49er]

Parliament voted for a referendum for the British electorate but the constitution says that the result is not legally binding but merely advisory.

Cameron lying when he said a vote to leave would mean leaving, with no going back. No surprise there, I suppose.

Certainly Parliament must take account of the outcome of the referendum but it must also take account of the campaign itself, whether it was misleading or misrepresentative.

Tall order, bearing in mind that Parliament was the source of much of the misleading and misrepresentation. 80% of MPs in favour of Project Fear - sorry, I meant remaining in the EU.

 

[GT49er]

Guess what all the remainers are hoping for now is an EU style referendum process - ie keep holding referendums until the stubborn voters come up with the 'right' result.




A very good reason for leaving, really.

 

[Titanic]

Looks tight if the bookies are anything to go by (they usually are but as we all know, NOT always)

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/richmond-park-by-election/winning-party

In truth it would need an extraordinary swing for the LibDems to take this one:

1) Conservative Zac Goldsmith 34,404 58.2%
2) Liberal Democrat Robin Meltzer 11,389 19.3%

What about Jeremy Corbyn's resurgent Labour party?

 

[melias shoes]

That is nonsense.

They won't 'lose' people in constituencies that voted Remain - the people they are supposed to represent.
They won't 'lose' any of the (many) people who voted Leave without proper consideration of what it actually meant, and will be pleased for a chance to right a wrong.
They won't 'lose' the huge swathe of people who stick rigidly to a party vote WHATEVER happens.

What Is this right a wrong? You remainers are unbelievable you really are .

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Guess what all the remainers are hoping for now is an EU style referendum process - ie keep holding referendums until the stubborn voters come up with the 'right' result.




A very good reason for leaving, really.

I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion. You wanted parliamentary sovereignty, well now you've got it. Parliament will decide.

 

[Simster]

What about Jeremy Corbyn's resurgent Labour party?

Simply coming close to capturing their deposit will be absolutely stone wall proof that the next election is as good as theirs.

 

[GT49er]

I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion. You wanted parliamentary sovereignty, well now you've got it. Parliament will decide.

Really. Have you really been so blind as to not notice what happens with referendums in the EU?