If not Sam then who?

[BensGrandad]

Hoddle over seeing a team of Adams, Lampard or Gerrard and Shearer.

 

[Triggaaar]

I look back fondly on the football we played in '98. Was that just a fluke?

Not that I feel the need for an English manager. I'd probably get Alex Ferguson in. He said he couldn't bear the thought of leading England out against Scotland at Hampden Park, so I'd just write into his contract that he could have the day off for such a game - it's unlikely we'd play there in the next few years anyway.

 

[The Albion Roar]

If the criticism levelled at Klinsmann is that he didn't win anything at Bayern or with Germany, it's a criticism that can be levelled at almost all English managers in domestic competition.

Since football was invented in 1992/93, the number of English managers who have won

The Premier League = 0
The FA Cup = 2 (Royle 95, Redknapp 08)
The League Cup = 4 (Atkinson 94, Evans 95, Little 96, McClaren 04).

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of England's talent pool, nor of the FA's concern for coaching of future domestic and international managers.

The other thing which is a consideration about Allardyce (and a similar one with Hodgson) is his age (he's 62 in October). If there are to be any foundations laid down regarding a continuous programme for England's future on-field prosperity - one which involves the ready support of the Premier League, the FA and - to a lesser extent - the Football League (not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination), would Sam Allardyce be able to lay that foundation down, and stick around long enough for it to work for him and future England managers...?

Without checking back, I'd go with the names from (I think it was) Yoda's list. There's quite some talent in that list, and given the FA's hefty resources, and consideration of throwing money at the role, I think they could have been a bit more imaginative.

 

[Easy 10]

I don't mind a foriegn manager on the condition that they have worked in EPL and speak good English. The Wenger or Ranieri type, even a Bilic would be ok.

Isn't that just giving in to our inadequacies though, instead of actually doing something to address them ?

We're not some backwater state like Gibralter, Luxembourg or Scotland. We're England, we have history, infrastructure, one of the biggest if not THE biggest domestic competition in the world supporting 92 professional clubs, we are a true footballing nation with millions of fans supporting countless clubs at all levels - no other country in the world has that.

And yet despite all that, we still end up trawling other countries to import a foreign manager to take charge of our National team. I realise that part of the problem is fundamentally, all the top clubs have foreign owners now who by default always look abroad for foreign managers to manage their (mostly)foreign squads of players. English managers never even get given the chance at a top club any more, so when the England job comes up, that lack of experience at a top club and in Europe instantly counts against them. Its a self-perpetuating problem now, and I honestly don't know what the FA can do to resolve it. They can't MAKE Sheikh Mansour or Bruce Buck appoint an Englishman as manager.

So we're kind of stuck now, probably until or unless one of our retired players (Ferdinand ? Shearer ? Murphy ?) forsakes the safety and security of the newspaper columns and the pundits couch, and actually steps up to the plate by going into management. Other former Internationals seem to get jobs at top clubs abroad, ours never do though, so its not going to happen any time soon.

 

[Gwylan]

it is absolutely the responsibility of the FA to improve the frankly dire situation we find ourselves in. The problem is that the FA care only about one thing and it isn't the quality of English managers.

Totally disagree. While the FA should shoulder some of the blame, it's not the FA reponsible for there being just half a dozen English managers in the PL. The underlying problem is the existence of three bodies running football in this country, no major footballing nation has to put up with that.

There's also the lack of government help for sport. It's not the FA's fault that local authorities are selling off pitches or running down leisure centres or that there's a shortage of football coaches. The problem goes much, much deeper than the FA.

I'd probably get Alex Ferguson in. He said he couldn't bear the thought of leading England out against Scotland at Hampden Park, so I'd just write into his contract that he could have the day off for such a game - it's unlikely we'd play there in the next few years anyway.

Aren't we in the same WC qualifying group?

 

[Gwylan]

Other former Internationals seem to get jobs at top clubs abroad, ours never do though, so its not going to happen any time soon.

(cough) Gary Neville ...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Wenger/Bielsa

 

[Easy 10]

(cough) Gary Neville ...

Thought someone would mention him. Again though, that's part of the problem. One failure at their very first job, and they're on the managerial scrapheap after half a season. See also Teddy Sheringham at Stevenage. Another managerial career written off before its even got off the ground.

The thing is, all of our retired top players these days don't even NEED to manage any more. They've made such VAST fortunes during their careers, there's simply no need for them to put their head above the parapet and take on a job that may well end up in failure and recriminations. They'd need the drive, determination, pride and ambition to do it - but why bother, when they're already rich, and they can pick up a few mill from Sky for an easy afternoons work now and then.

Fair play to Gary Neville for having a go at least. I hope he'll have learned from it, and will get another opportunity somewhere else some day, if his Valencia experience hasn't put him off it for life.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Thought someone would mention him. Again though, that's part of the problem. One failure at their very first job, and they're on the managerial scrapheap after half a season. See also Teddy Sheringham at Stevenage. Another managerial career written off before its even got off the ground.

The thing is, all of our retired top players these days don't even NEED to manage any more. They've made such VAST fortunes during their careers, there's simply no need for them to put their head above the parapet and take on a job that may well end up in failure and recriminations. They'd need the drive, determination, pride and ambition to do it - but why bother, when they're already rich, and they can pick up a few mill from Sky for an easy afternoons work now and then.

Fair play to Gary Neville for having a go at least. I hope he'll have learned from it, and will get another opportunity somewhere else some day, if his Valencia experience hasn't put him off it for life.

How may of the recently retired England managers can you say would make good managers from how they acted?

Lampard/Gerrard - though technically not retired

 

[Gwylan]

Thought someone would mention him. Again though, that's part of the problem. One failure at their very first job, and they're on the managerial scrapheap after half a season. See also Teddy Sheringham at Stevenage. Another managerial career written off before its even got off the ground.

The thing is, all of our retired top players these days don't even NEED to manage any more. They've made such VAST fortunes during their careers, there's simply no need for them to put their head above the parapet and take on a job that may well end up in failure and recriminations. They'd need the drive, determination, pride and ambition to do it - but why bother, when they're already rich, and they can pick up a few mill from Sky for an easy afternoons work now and then.

Fair play to Gary Neville for having a go at least. I hope he'll have learned from it, and will get another opportunity somewhere else some day, if his Valencia experience hasn't put him off it for life.

It's a fair point. It's one made by business people from all walks of life, that in the UK you're not allowed to fail. In the US, it's different, all business people are allowed failures. Hell, there's a guy with five bankrupt business running for president right now.

On the other hand, there are far too few top footballers willing to learn in a lower league. Neville had a go but why didn't he go to somewhere like Bury, Rochdale or Accrington to learn on the job? Shearer failed at Newcastle but hasn't gone elsewhere to learn his trade.

They should be allowed to fail but I think there's a need for some reality too

 

[albionfan37]

The only one worth entertaining would be bilic

 

[Easy 10]

Wenger/Bielsa

Wenger I can understand, but Bielsa....

Bielsa is such a TYPICAL candidate who's name suddenly gets bandied about when the England job comes up. Someone who's been managing all over the world for 25 years, but who nobody had even heard of a year ago. Has managed all across South America and Europe, had a spell in charge of Chile, and picked up a few gongs along the way. Great. He knows how to get a tune out of some foreign teams. But does that mean he'd be a good fit for the England job ? Of man-managing England players ? Coaching them with a style of play they can understand and put into practice when the pressure is really on ? Would he really SUIT England ? He could just as easily be another Capello. We can all read a CV, but it'd still be a completely blind punt as to whether it'd work with England.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Wenger I can understand, but Bielsa....

Bielsa is such a TYPICAL candidate who's name suddenly gets bandied about when the England job comes up. Someone who's been managing all over the world for 25 years, but who nobody had even heard of a year ago. Has managed all across South America and Europe, had a spell in charge of Chile, and picked up a few gongs along the way. Great. He knows how to get a tune out of some foreign teams. But does that mean he'd be a good fit for the England job ? Of man-managing England players ? Coaching them with a style of play they can understand and put into practice when the pressure is really on ? Would he really SUIT England ? He could just as easily be another Capello. We can all read a CV, but it'd still be a completely blind punt as to whether it'd work with England.

Bielsa is a top manager.

His style goes along with the way Mopo/Klopp/pep plays - which is where a large number of the squad come from now - which makes more sense then getting someone in who plays the complete opposite - Plus players like Vardy would suite the system as well.

I would imagine most have heard of him, and I dont think he was connected to the job (unless I missed it?)

 

[symyjym]

Isn't that just giving in to our inadequacies though, instead of actually doing something to address them ?

We're not some backwater state like Gibralter, Luxembourg or Scotland. We're England, we have history, infrastructure, one of the biggest if not THE biggest domestic competition in the world supporting 92 professional clubs, we are a true footballing nation with millions of fans supporting countless clubs at all levels - no other country in the world has that.

And yet despite all that, we still end up trawling other countries to import a foreign manager to take charge of our National team. I realise that part of the problem is fundamentally, all the top clubs have foreign owners now who by default always look abroad for foreign managers to manage their (mostly)foreign squads of players. English managers never even get given the chance at a top club any more, so when the England job comes up, that lack of experience at a top club and in Europe instantly counts against them. Its a self-perpetuating problem now, and I honestly don't know what the FA can do to resolve it. They can't MAKE Sheikh Mansour or Bruce Buck appoint an Englishman as manager.

So we're kind of stuck now, probably until or unless one of our retired players (Ferdinand ? Shearer ? Murphy ?) forsakes the safety and security of the newspaper columns and the pundits couch, and actually steps up to the plate by going into management. Other former Internationals seem to get jobs at top clubs abroad, ours never do though, so its not going to happen any time soon.

Yep I agree but people like Shearer who threw his name into the hat, hasn't even bothered to start any coaching courses. I am pro Sam btw, but was keen for Hoddle.

 

[Doc Lynam]

The manager is not the problem it goes deeper then that.

 

[The Albion Roar]

Totally disagree. While the FA should shoulder some of the blame, it's not the FA reponsible for there being just half a dozen English managers in the PL. The underlying problem is the existence of three bodies running football in this country, no major footballing nation has to put up with that.

There's also the lack of government help for sport. It's not the FA's fault that local authorities are selling off pitches or running down leisure centres or that there's a shortage of football coaches. The problem goes much, much deeper than the FA.

Actually, the FA has it within its power to buy up pitches which are being sold off, and preserve them for anything from grassroots to premium coaching. But instead, they wash their hands of it - claiming 'it's not our fault...'.

They could be far more pro-active in the top to bottom preservation and promotion of the game. But they aren't - they've thrown their lot in with the Premier League, at the expense of most of the rest of English football.

 

[Easy 10]

Bielsa is a top manager.

His style goes along with the way Mopo/Klopp/pep plays - which is where a large number of the squad come from now - which makes more sense then getting someone in who plays the complete opposite - Plus players like Vardy would suite the system as well.

I would imagine most have heard of him, and I dont think he was connected to the job (unless I missed it?)

I'm sure he is a top manager, as his CV would suggest. But as we all know from experience, that still doesn't necessarily translate into being a top ENGLAND manager. Its a completely different skillset working with and man-managing our own collection of hugely hyped, earphone-clad, cossetted buffoons.

Bielsa was never directly linked with the job to my knowledge, other than lots of people clocking his CV and mentioning him because he's a "top manager". And of course the FA not ruling anyone out. But he doesn't look like a good fit to me, because we've tried this way before.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm sure he is a top manager, as his CV would suggest. But as we all know from experience, that still doesn't necessarily translate into being a top ENGLAND manager. Its a completely different skillset working with and man-managing our own collection of hugely hyped, earphone-clad, cossetted buffoons.

Bielsa was never directly linked with the job to my knowledge, other than lots of people clocking his CV and mentioning him because he's a "top manager". And of course the FA not ruling anyone out. But he doesn't look like a good fit to me, because we've tried this way before.

He is a manager who doesn't take shit, look how he walked out on Lazio after 2 days.

The players that played under him all seem to respect him.

You are of course right, we have seen it before - but I think he would have been different

 

[Triggaaar]

Aren't we in the same WC qualifying group?

So we are

Oh well, I'd still give him the job, and just let someone else cover that game.

 

[Gwylan]

Actually, the FA has it within its power to buy up pitches which are being sold off, and preserve them for anything from grassroots to premium coaching.

I didn't know that. Have they ever been asked why they don't?

They could be far more pro-active in the top to bottom preservation and promotion of the game. But they aren't - they've thrown their lot in with the Premier League, at the expense of most of the rest of English football.

... but still don't know how the FA can be blamed for the lack of English managers in the PL. As someone says above, they can't make teams take Englishmen