[Politics] Brexit

[Wrong-Direction]

So you enjoyed reading The Sun's version of the Hillsborough 'Truth', the fabricated interview with the widow of Colonel 'H' Jones and the hacking of the phone of a dead child?

Not saying it's wrong, it takes all sorts. It does show your moral values though.


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Just because you're old and retired doesn't stop you being a moron.

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[ManOfSussex]

Here's the thing - the type of migrants a lot of people are worried about are simply not from the EU.
Here's another - we already control our own borders despite being in the EU. (Whether we allocate sufficient resources to control them effectively is entirely a different argument).

Being IN the EU has allowed us to make the arrangement with France, that 'our' border controls are on their soil. Because of this it is the French who are forced to deal with the problematic refugee camps around Calais. Vote Leave, and why would the French agree to maintain that arrangement? (They won't). They'll let anyone leave France bound for the UK to happily get rid of them. We can stop them in Dover but then what? Being out of the EU isn't going to stop those North Africans and other desperate people trying to get here, in any way, shape or form.

Absolutely. The other thing that has never been answered by the 'leave' camp is if free-movement ends (which it wont) and we end up with this wonderful Australian style points system for immigration, what happens to our open border with The Republic of Ireland and that with an independent Scotland, if it occurs? Border checks? Fences? Or will Dublin and Edinburgh simply have to alter their immigration policies accordingly to fit in with Nigel Farage?

 

[AK74]

I have been reading the Sun since the 70's,and enjoyed it most of the time.I can also spell idiot.I retired at 59,mortgage and debts all paid off,comfortably off etc.,which is,I suspect,a great deal better off than you.I presume half the people slagging off the Sun/Murdoch are unemployed/unemployable to have so much free time on an internet chat site!As to the poster who declared he spends 9 months of the year in EU countries,where does he spend the other 3,la-la land?

Channelling

 

[Two Professors]

So you enjoyed reading The Sun's version of the Hillsborough 'Truth', the fabricated interview with the widow of Colonel 'H' Jones and the hacking of the phone of a dead child?

Not saying it's wrong, it takes all sorts. It does show your moral values though.


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Shows how much you actually read before you become offended!I said I enjoyed it most of the time-duh

 

[El Presidente]

Shows how much you actually read before you become offended!I said I enjoyed it most of the time-duh

Never said I was offended.

 

[Two Professors]

Just because you're old and retired doesn't stop you being a moron.

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At least I got this far!You probably can't count up to my age,even with your shoes and pants off.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

At least I got this far!You probably can't count up to my age,even with your shoes and pants off.

I don't feel sorry for you, you're just part of a lost generation full of hope still.

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[Two Professors]

Never said I was offended.

But you feel it's your right,knowing nothing about me,to pronounce on my moral values.I find that slightly hypocritical-have you served in the Forces at all?

 

[Two Professors]

I don't feel sorry for you, you're just part of a lost generation full of hope still.

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But I know what you're full of.

 

[The Birdman]

If we vote to leave and want to retain access to the single market by remaining in The EEA, reciprocal, free movement of people and workers will remain. The 'leave' camp can not conclusively tell us what will happen with immigration, because it's ultimately totally out of their control and they have no idea. If you want to believe Nigel Farage and his points system that he says we'll introduce, fine. He's not in Westminster. He's no more influence on things than a bloke down the pub. This vote is about the UK's membership of The European Union. It is not about our immigration policies. Therefore if you think that voting to leave defeats the object, then vote to remain. We'll have a say and a veto over who joins the EU in the future and what restrictions are placed on their citizens, if any, in regards to free movement. We'll have no say whatsoever outside the EU and nothing will change. Nearly half of net migration to the UK is non-EU citizens anyway. That's not going to be changed by voting to leave the EU either, as it has nothing to do with the EU.

Well said Sir also can you see the French stopping the migrants at Dippie and Calais if we come out they well be selling them rubber boats and life jackets to cross.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Well said Sir also can you see the French stopping the migrants at Dippie and Calais if we come out they well be selling them rubber boats and life jackets to cross.

They'll give them a ferry ticket and a packed lunch.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

But I know what you're full of.

I've got my whole life ahead of me, being full of hate won't get me very far[emoji106]

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[AK74]

They'll give them a ferry ticket and a packed lunch.

This is the French we're talking about: the ferry workers will be on strike.

 

[Jim D]

Brexit now 13/8 with Bet365

Now 11/8 - I want it to go odds-on then I'll have a bet on remain.

 

[El Presidente]

But you feel it's your right,knowing nothing about me,to pronounce on my moral values.I find that slightly hypocritical-have you served in the Forces at all?

Why buy The Sun if you don't buy into it's viewpoint?

It's not as if you cannot afford a more expensive paper, as you've already told us that you are considerably richer than most of us.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's all fair points but I guess people have different priorities. I'd also add that I am sure that every single newspaper has done something that is not only illegal but morally reprehensible. it's the nature of the beast. The fact that dodgy journalists also move from paper to paper, Take Daniel Boffey for example - used to write hatchet jobs on the Labour party for the Mail but is now employed by the Guardian, prove that it's an industry-wide problem and newspapers are remarkably devoid of morals when it comes to who they will employ and what they will write to keep their circulation up.

All newspapers know their readership slants and prejudices and the journalists twist the stories to pander to those prejudices. That's all that happens. The broadsheet readers who believe they are getting more impartial news are probably the most deluded of the lot.

I think you have a level of cynicism that doesn't justify all papers being the same. Journalists can move and tailor their writing to their employer, but it will be the editor and owner that dictates the content. A good journalist should be able to move seamlessly from The Sun to The Guardian, however it will be the quality of the editor and content team that ensures what is being written is suitable for the publication and therefore readership. I doubt there are many purchasers of the Telegraph of Guardian who aren't totally aware of the slant of their paper or are convinced its impartial. I suspect some will alternate between the Times and Telegraph just like others will do the same between the Indie and Guardian.

Anyway, no one has started a thread that says 'Guardian Backs Remain', or 'The Times Says Leave'. The very notion that the red top we are discussing holds so much power elevates it above all the broadsheets put together in terms of influence. It simply shouldn't have such prominence, but aggressive pricing, tits, scandal and lies can shape our political landscape. I do genuinely resent that.

 

[ManOfSussex]

A TNS poll just released:

Leave - 47%
Remain - 40%
Undecided/Wont vote -13%

 

[SussexSeahawk]

Quote from some journalist at the evening standard:

" I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.' "

 

[nicko31]

I think your position is the same as mine, as you said in your original post: "people see immigration everywhere. They see in in house prices; they see it waiting times at doctors; they see in in school places. Some of this may be anecdotal, but it's tangible. The problem is the the Remain is all projection. The immigration is real and impacts people's lives. I agree that some immigration is good for the economy, but the numbers which we have had over the past 10-12 years (around 10m people) are just too many."

I personally am in 100% agreement with that statement of yours, and if there was a solution that saw a significant reverse in immigrant numbers I could consider voting Leave. However I believe that we will not see a decrease in the number of immigrants already here once we have exited the EU, and the statements from many other Brexiteers on this thread, such as pastafarian, acknowledge that. With that in mind I have no hesitation in voting Remain because of the good the EU does in other areas of our lives.

Indeed Brexit is no silver bullet for immigration, that who think that it will are seriously deluded

To me the risk / reward of leave just doesn't add up for Brexit. We risk the economy, the very existence of the UK, not to mention applease the likes of Galloway, Farage, Boris and Gove

Meanwhile Putin would like a Brexit, anything to weaken Europe and increase of chances of a Baltic states land grab

 

[El Presidente]

The very notion that the red top we are discussing holds so much power elevates it above all the broadsheets put together in terms of influence. It simply shouldn't have such prominence, but aggressive pricing, tits, scandal and lies can shape our political landscape. I do genuinely resent that.

Dunno, you know what you get with The Sun.

It has been campaigning for Brexit since day 1, as has The Times, as that is what it's Australian owner Murdoch wants. The sudden 'coming out' in favour of Brexit today is ridiculous as there has been nothing but a one way debate in the paper. What is clever is the way that it has made us all talk bollocks about the issue, when there is no new issue to discuss.