[Politics] Brexit

[The Rivet]

Nigel Farage is a very clever and knowledgable man and a great speaker.I'd love to see him go head to head with Cameron in a debate over the referendum because he would rip him to shreds.

I thought a date for this had been set and Farage is threatening to lob verbal grenades at him?

 

[Maldini]

I thought a date for this had been set and Farage is threatening to lob verbal grenades at him?

I haven't heard of a debate.I know Cameron is doing a solo question and answer session live on Sky and so is Micheal Gove.
Cameron tried to duck out of debates before last years general election and will I'm sure try the same with the referendum.

 

[looney]

In fairness, there is no attempt to pretend that the questions are not established beforehand - DD says "The next question is from (name)" before each one is asked. He, and more importantly the man with the mic, need to know where each questioner is sitting to ensure smooth running. The audience is asked to submit questions beforehand and the producer selects them to create a balanced programme. It would be chaotic otherwise.

I agree with you to a point. " and the producer selects them to create a balanced programme." hmmmmm its this bit I think that QT needs working on.

 

[The Rivet]

I haven't heard of a debate.I know Cameron is doing a solo question and answer session live on Sky and so is Micheal Gove.
Cameron tried to duck out of debates before last years general election and will I'm sure try the same with the referendum.

The Brexit campaigner will appear on ITV's Cameron and Farage Live, to be broadcast on June 7 and moderated by Julie Etchingham.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Actually I expected it to be far more in on here as Brighton is the ultimate lefty place.
Thankfully polls are irrelevant
Anyone know why the migration crisis never gets mentioned now?
I presume it's hush hush til after the referendum

As far as the Albion catchment area is concerned, Brighton & Hove is defined by YouGov as Europhile-leaning and Sussex as a whole as Eurosceptic-leaning so no obvious conclusions to draw there. Within this, and across the country as a whole, there seem to be socio-economic, education and age factors that influence voting intentions and perhaps these are as relevant as where people live but like all stats of this kind, they are generalities.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I agree with you to a point. " and the producer selects them to create a balanced programme." hmmmmm its this bit I think that QT needs working on.

Agree with you!

 

[Gwylan]

have you ever seen any of those lot following football couldn't make it up
regards
DR

Loads of them. I'm not a member of any of these parties but I do know members: just of the top of my head I know supporters of Brighton, Millwall, Tottenham, QPR, Fulham and, er, Shrewsbury and York City among their membership.

There's even a Socialist Party book about football

 

[The Rivet]

So, I have watched Paxman and the Brussels report.
First impressions are that we have a piss poor representation and those that do represent us in the arenas that matter are actually nominated not elected!. The actual British influence amounts to 'jack shite'.
The interviews continued. There was overwhelming evidence of a patronising attitude to the British electorate.
The EU parliament is not fit for purpose under the current set up. proportional/economic power means nothing. (unless your Germany).
The Maastricht treaty sold us out.
I am beginning to wonder whether I should stand as an MEP to join the rich gravy train.
If we stay we give it all away in a romantic view of ideology.
If we vote leave we have a chance to roar again like a lion.
A potential 'roar' that could shake the continent.
The British are not sheep. Or are they?

 

[pastafarian]

So, I have watched Paxman and the Brussels report.
First impressions are that we have a piss poor representation and those that do represent us in the arenas that matter are actually nominated not elected!. The actual British influence amounts to 'jack shite'.
The interviews continued. There was overwhelming evidence of a patronising attitude to the British electorate.
The EU parliament is not fit for purpose under the current set up. proportional/economic power means nothing. (unless your Germany).
The Maastricht treaty sold us out.
I am beginning to wonder whether I should stand as an MEP to join the rich gravy train.
If we stay we give it all away in a romantic view of ideology.
If we vote leave we have a chance to roar again like a lion.
A potential 'roar' that could shake the continent.
The British are not sheep. Or are they?

if you watched that programme and saw how the EU parliament functions and still want to remain in then the world is doomed.

thought it was interesting that middle aged and older people were divided on the standard argument of national sovereignty and shared sovereignty.
And then the very youngest simply didn’t care about traditional sovereignty at all but I kept on hearing references to "personal" sovereignty(whatever that is), as though they were simply spoilt brats looking after themselves and sod everyone else.

 

[The Rivet]

if you watched that programme and saw how the EU parliament functions and still want to remain in then the world is doomed.

thought it was interesting that middle aged and older people were divided on the standard argument of national sovereignty and shared sovereignty.
And then the very youngest simply didn’t care about traditional sovereignty at all but I kept on hearing references to "personal" sovereignty(whatever that is), as though they were simply spoilt brats looking after themselves and sod everyone else.

Sums up the attitude of many.

 

[cunning fergus]

So because some foreigners are criminals and are in prison we should ban foreigners from entering the country and we can only do that if we are out of the EU?

No, that is your logic.

The reason that our foreign prison population is being debated is because of the oft used narrative that UK taxpayers benefit from migration, and migrants.

If that is really credibly true, then the costs of dealing with resultant crime arising from this ever growing constituency is merely one fairly obvious dimension that should be on the balance sheet that is used to support this claim.

Accordingly, is it on the balance sheet? If it isn't, what value do we afford to (say) the violent assault of a British citizen by a migrant that has been waved through to work, study, claim asylum or whatever.........until we do the claim we benefit is just a hollow claim rooted in a binary quantitative assessment which ignores any qualitative assessment.

The question of border security should not be conflated with this point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-two-more-women-he-met-on-dating-website.html

It's evidently failing.........

 

[cunning fergus]

The last census recorded 11.9% of the population as foreign-born (so including those who have become British citizens). According to the Ministry of Justice report I linked earlier "The foreign national population, however, still represents just under 12% of the total prison population." So what is it that's truly shocking here?

Feel free to send your Bad Person Detector to the Home Office; I'm sure that they'll be very excited to receive it.

I see, your point here being that by accepting a wave of migration of 12% into the country in recent years we should not be concerned with the resultant crime associated with that policy as it is largely consistent with the foreign population.

We should not be concerned about that as an increase in crime, the cost of dealing with it or the consequences for victims........we can explain to the parents of a raped and murdered child that they shouldn't worry, the last census demonstrated that the prison population was consistent with migration rates.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...m-Latvia-was-able-to-kill-and-rape-in-UK.html

How absolutely wonderful....

 

[cunning fergus]

And the number of foreign nationals in UK prisons who had convictions prior to entering the UK is?

I found one, nothing to see here.......

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/convicted-rapist-romania-jailed-after-6406539

I expect he paid his way in tax, that the main thing after all.

 

[Hamilton]

Dont think he was talking about "jobs" more likely reference was to (lack of) Housing , and schools(places in them ) , and Hospitals( beds in these), oh and the prisons ...

So, we do something about that by investing in the infrastructure required in order to grow the prosperity of the country.


Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

 

[pb21]

No, that is your logic.

The reason that our foreign prison population is being debated is because of the oft used narrative that UK taxpayers benefit from migration, and migrants.

If that is really credibly true, then the costs of dealing with resultant crime arising from this ever growing constituency is merely one fairly obvious dimension that should be on the balance sheet that is used to support this claim.

Accordingly, is it on the balance sheet? If it isn't, what value do we afford to (say) the violent assault of a British citizen by a migrant that has been waved through to work, study, claim asylum or whatever.........until we do the claim we benefit is just a hollow claim rooted in a binary quantitative assessment which ignores any qualitative assessment.

The question of border security should not be conflated with this point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-two-more-women-he-met-on-dating-website.html

It's evidently failing.........

There are 4,200 foreigners in UK prisons. For the year ending September 2015 530,000 foreigners came to this country.

The total current prison population of foreigners is less than 1% of foreigners entering per year.

If it isn't on the balance sheet it's probably because it would make a negligible difference.

 

[Hamilton]

I found one, nothing to see here.......

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/convicted-rapist-romania-jailed-after-6406539

I expect he paid his way in tax, that the main thing after all.

People commit crime. That's about the length of your argument.


Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

 

[cunning fergus]

Maybe we need a points based immigration system like, say, Australia to reduce this number?

The facts......look them up!

Sure, like your shit over there doesn't stink?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/foreign-criminals-find-cover-in-germanys-migrant-tide-1457651473

 

[cunning fergus]

People commit crime. That's about the length of your argument.


Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

I see, if that how you feel about it why even bother to lock people up?

 

[Hamilton]

I see, if that how you feel about it why even bother to lock people up?

I'd lock you up if I could. For crimes against reasoned debate.


Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

 

[cunning fergus]

There are 4,200 foreigners in UK prisons. For the year ending September 2015 530,000 foreigners came to this country.

The total current prison population of foreigners is less than 1% of foreigners entering per year.

If it isn't on the balance sheet it's probably because it would make a negligible difference.

I thought we had agreed that the figures from the MoJ were 14% of the UK prison population which is approx 10,500 a figure that had doubled in last 10 years?

You consider the costs, both quantitative and qualitative of this position is negligible?

Well that's that problem dealt with...........excellent.