Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[TomandJerry]

Over in Athens Greece’s chief negotiator Euclid Tsakalotos is predicting that the government will be able to reach an agreement with creditors very quickly.

Asked why he believed the government could cut a deal with creditors so soon - when for the past five months talks have been deadlocked - Tsakalotos told STAR TV:

“The first thing is that the IMF report [released last week] proves that the debt [load] is not viable and secondly that there is a new popular mandate as it would seem from the apparent result of the referendum.”

 

[yxee]

“The first thing is that the IMF report [released last week] proves that the debt [load] is not viable and secondly that there is a new popular mandate as it would seem from the apparent result of the referendum.”

Translation:

1. We spent too much money, through sheer incompetence of government
2. We don't want to pay it back, so we are choosing not to.

To all the people who say this is a good thing: what is the difference between a country that defaults and a bank? Why are bankers evil for taking risks, whilst politicians are heroes?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Apropos for no reason here's a photo of the then Greece prime minister signing an agreement at the London conference 1953 cancelling 50% of Germany's debt.

I've said this a few times. Short memories but it eas in Germanys interest to keep rates low to fuel demand for their exports.

 

[Buzzer]

Translation:

1. We spent too much money, through sheer incompetence of government
2. We don't want to pay it back, so we are choosing not to.

To all the people who say this is a good thing: what is the difference between a country that defaults and a bank? Why are bankers evil for taking risks, whilst politicians are heroes?

I refer you to my previous post where I say that Greek debt should be split between that caused by Greek operational culture and that caused by France and Germany forcing them to become the 4th biggest buyer in the world of conventional weapons as a way of France and Germany looking the other way as Greece adopts the Euro fraudulently.

 

[Hampster Gull]

People before money. I can get behind that sort of movement.

The Greeks have been doing this for decades, expecting others to pay, which is why they are in the mess they are in.

 

[TomandJerry]

With 30.07% of votes reported

Yes 39.31%

No 60.69%

 

[sir albion]

Damn right. Fantastic, if confirmed, that a nation has people, scared and under severe monetary pressure, who still have the balls to say 'F*ck You' to the moneymen whose naked greed and stupidity caused all this grief in the first place.

To bloody right....Millions of lower class people in poverty and this shows exactly what's important when you're a Greek and it's not bloody money for once.
Bollocks to the Brussels beauracrat's and bollocks to the Germans....yes they'll struggle for a while,but they will bounce back.

 

[TomandJerry]

Heads may soon be rolling in the opposition camp.

Demands are growing for Antonis Samaras, the main opposition leader and former prime minister to step down as head of the centre-right New Democracy party following the apparent victory of the ‘NO” vote, reports Helena.
The former finance minister Dora Bakoyannis has called Samaras demanding that he steps down with immediate effect, several media outlets are reporting.

There are signs that some traditional New Democracy party supporters deliberately voted no (when the party had urged Greeks to vote yes) out of protest against Samaras who has refused to resign.

 

[TomandJerry]

More than 35% of the ballot papers have now been counted, and no is still firmly ahead with 61% of the votes. The landslide is still on course.

 

[Buzzer]

The Greeks have been doing this for decades, expecting others to pay, which is why they are in the mess they are in.

At the risk of repeating myself, I have said many times that Greek culture needs to change, fundamental change but the Greeks have defaulted not because of their laziness, their profligacy or for any other reason that they signed a Faustian pact with France and Germany as a way of buying themselves into the Euro. Have a look at the proportion of debt to France and Germany and all becomes clear. It's this that became the tipping point. To further push the point home - in your words the Greeks have been doing this for decades but only since joining the Euro have they found themselves in the shit. Ever wonder why that was?

And further to that, I'll also repeat that no matter how and why Greece got to the position it finds itself in, they are equal Europeans within the EU the same as French, German or British but I've not heard one word from the creditors where they've stated that alongside the austerity, the necessary but painful medicine that Greece needs to take, that the EU will ensure that our friends, fellow Europeans and equal partners will have enough food, essential services and suchlike. The EU claims ultimate sovereignty over every member state yet appears to wash its hands of the responsibility for people's lives. Hence my comment about putting people before money.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Greeks have been doing this for decades, expecting others to pay, which is why they are in the mess they are in.

Quite.

 

[larus]

Greece needs to leave the Euro. The currency doesn't work. No currency union has EVER worked. There must be fiscal and political union first. The rich areas need to accept transfers of wealth from them to the poorer areas. This is what happens within the U.S. and here.

This is a huge kick in the nuts for the EU. They are an undemocratic institution. No doubt we'll hear from them that the referendum should be held again to allow the Greeks to get the correct result.

 

[sir albion]

The Greeks have been doing this for decades, expecting others to pay, which is why they are in the mess they are in.

And this is why the EU as a whole is bollocks...
Different cultures
Different way of life
Very laid back

This is Greece at the end of the day and it's different in most countries

 

[TomandJerry]

Eurozone finance ministers are not planning on an emergency meeting tomorrow.

One official has told Reuters:

“No way. (The ministers) would not know what to discuss.”

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

Greece seems to think the basic laws of economics, cause and effect and people's behaviour don't apply to them.

1 They overspend for years

2 Paying taxes in Greece is almost optional

3 Copnsequently they have a massive deficit

4 The first rule - when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Greece digs faster than ever

5 Another rule - when you owe money, try to keep your credtiors on your side. Greece slags them off

6 People naturally don't like austerity. A political party comes along as says we are against austerity. People vote for it.

7 So what? I don't like English rain. Voting against it doesn't change the reality.

8 The Greek Government say voting against austerity doesn't mean they will have to leave Europe and leave the euro. What planet do these people live on?

9 The people believe them. Incredible.

This isn't an economy, it's a car crash.

 

[TomandJerry]

Half the ballot papers have now been counted, and No is still holding firm with 61% of votes.

 

[The Modfather]

The Greeks waiving goodbye to the Eurozone

 

[TomandJerry]

Caroline Lucas MP, who represents the British south coast constituency of Brighton Pavilion, says the eurozone must now accept that*Greece*needs debt relief:

“The Greek people have made a decision which must now be respected. This referendum has seen EU states do their very best to undermine the democratic will of the Greek people but it’s time to draw a line under the past and move onwards.

“History shows us that countries can escape crippling debt in a just way. In 1953, at London Conference, Greece was among the European nations signing a deal which allowed for the cancellation of German debt, to enable the country to grow again after the destruction of the Second World War.*Europe*needs to come together to offer the Greeks a deal which allows their country to be rebuilt.”

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Caroline Lucas MP, who represents the British south coast constituency of Brighton Pavilion, says the eurozone must now accept that*Greece*needs debt relief:

“The Greek people have made a decision which must now be respected. This referendum has seen EU states do their very best to undermine the democratic will of the Greek people but it’s time to draw a line under the past and move onwards.

“History shows us that countries can escape crippling debt in a just way. In 1953, at London Conference, Greece was among the European nations signing a deal which allowed for the cancellation of German debt, to enable the country to grow again after the destruction of the Second World War.*Europe*needs to come together to offer the Greeks a deal which allows their country to be rebuilt.”

I tend to agree with this. But it has to come with a reform package from the Greeks; they can't carry on the way they have been. I'm not sure the current government are able to deliver this though.

 

[Hampster Gull]

And this is why the EU as a whole is bollocks...
Different cultures
Different way of life
Very laid back

This is Greece at the end of the day and it's different in most countries

Fair if you mean Euro zone