Harty SOCKS it to Barber in the Worthing Herald

[34064 Fighter Command]

Totally understand why people are cautious about the 'British manager please comment' - but the evidence shows that British managers are better at being promoted than 'Foreign' managers from this division.

Magee, Coppell, Mullery, Case, Lloyd, Melia :- all RELEGATED from the Championship at BHAFC. All BRITISH. I could have added Hinshlewood as that was nailed on until Coppell came along.

Name ONE foreign manager who's CV has 'relegated from Championship at BHAFC ' on it. Liam Brady walked out to save his reputation but he's the only one who comes even remotely close.

The only reason you or I can spout this stat is because there are more British than Foreign managers in the football league, so it's a fact of life they'll more likely be in charge at promoted or relegated clubs.

 

[SAC]

It depends on who you ask. Ask some on NSC and we should be spending someone else's money (Bloom's) on better players costing more money and the loss should therefore be much more

Bloom is the owner, it's his money and he needs to decide if he is happy to lose £1 million a month. Fans have to decide if they are happy to carry on forking out PL prices for tickets, beer and pies but get lower Championship level football. If the fans answer is no then ST sales will decline and that loss will increase. However if money is spent on better players and better results then perhaps fans will stay.

Bloom is a gambling man, I think he is gambling that fans will accept PL prices and poor football. I think he's wrong and the ST holders who are already staying away wont be renewing and some ST holders who are still attending will decide to pick and chose the matches they attend.

 

[spanish flair]

Magee, Coppell, Mullery, Case, Lloyd, Melia :- all RELEGATED from the Championship at BHAFC. All BRITISH. I could have added Hinshlewood as that was nailed on until Coppell came along.

Name ONE foreign manager who's CV has 'relegated from Championship at BHAFC ' on it. Liam Brady walked out to save his reputation but he's the only one who comes even remotely close.

The only reason you or I can spout this stat is because there are more British than Foreign managers in the football league, so it's a fact of life they'll more likely be in charge at promoted or relegated clubs.

Do you honestly believe that about Brady, after all he did to get the consortium going that eventually saved the club?

 

[MattBackHome]

Tho you certainly know the meaning of the word 'nonsense'. IMHO, like.

The lifeblood of NSC innit.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Wimbledon got relegated and went down to leagues their support was correct for and then MK stole their club.
Charlton - a far bigger club who get 10,000 less paying punters than us when higher in the same division. More successful, but not bigger.
Wigan - Agreed

None of what you post alters the simple fact that fans look around at clubs with smaller supports than Brighton and think, why, oh why did Brighton have to go into serial decline since 1984, have to have Archer, Gillingham, Withdean and then after all that, the club gets back on its feet, have 26000 paying every week but still a club like Burnley and Palace can reach the top flight but the Albion are in the lower leagues. I understand, parachute payments and the like but really, it is galling and natural for people to just shake their head and think "same old Brighton, never have had and never will have any desire for a bloody good team".

Historically Charlton are a far bigger club, with a far better league record. Record attendance 75,031 at HOME. Ours is what, less than HALF that.

Charlton Honours:

Division One Champions 1
Division One Runners-up 1
Division One Play-Offs Winners 1
Division Three South Champions 2
Division Two Runners-up 2
F.A. Cup Runners-up 1
F.A. Cup Winners 1
Full Members' Cup Runners-up 1
League One Champions 1

They've had 32 seasons of top flight football in their history. Yes, 32

Our honours are diddley squat by comparison.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Do you honestly believe that about Brady, after all he did to get the consortium going that eventually saved the club?

Course I do, he knew the writing was on the wall, otherwise why go for the Nuclear ' back me or sack me ' option. He wasn't sacked..........

Doesn't make him dishonourable though, it means he's prepared to stand by his word.

However it's completely irrelevant because Tony Bloom and Paul Barber are not Bill Archer and Greg Stanley, are they?

Right, I'm off home, I've got a bus to catch and a football match in Brighton to go to..........

 

[Working class pride]

Historically Charlton are a far bigger club, with a far better league record. Record attendance 75,031 at HOME. Ours is what, less than HALF that.

Charlton Honours:

Division One Champions 1
Division One Runners-up 1
Division One Play-Offs Winners 1
Division Three South Champions 2
Division Two Runners-up 2
F.A. Cup Runners-up 1
F.A. Cup Winners 1
Full Members' Cup Runners-up 1
League One Champions 1

They've had 32 seasons of top flight football in their history. Yes, 32

Our honours are diddley squat by comparison.

I know all of that, and despite all of that success (hence a big, great ground at the Valley with a large record attendance), they do get 10,000 less than Brighton when in the same division. They are a more successful club, they are not a bigger club. Imagine if Brighton had even a sniff of success, just one trophy to add to the Charity Shield. Brighton have had nothing, well next to nothing but get now and in the past big big gates. What a remarkable support we have, recognise it. The team never just never matches the support and that is why its natural for Brighton fans to just shake their head and say "typical Brighton" with the rubbish they have been served with this season.

 

[knocky1]

AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW

There are so many issues with Harty’s article – and I firmly believe it’s worth highlighting these before they become entrenched in the minds of those who, in fits of the ‘9 game win-drought grumps’ might unquestioningly adopt them. The article jumps around so many perceived Barber wrongs and manages to be absolutely wrong in most cases, and inaccurate on others.

His dismissal of Barber’s listing of some of the features of the match-day experience which might mitigate against the BBC Survey results is illuminating. Firstly it implies that all fans have exactly the same standard of ‘value’ as himself. It also hints at a masochistic desire to not have comfy seats or unimpeded views of the pitch; to return to the days (and places) where he was more important to the club.

More obviously he has omitted entirely the most significant mitigation; that of the travel subsidy.

He then strays into presentation-of-speculation-as-fact territory regarding the impact of results on the attending fanbase. There was an excellent thread on here a while back with some nifty little charts showing attendances since 2011. None of these in any way indicate the level of apathy he describes. Again however, there is a nagging sense that he somehow wants this to happen.

Having repeated and extrapolated upon this guesswork he then turns his ire to the well trod ground of FFP. He asks “Is it in danger of becoming an excuse?” I’d suggest that Betteridge’s law of headlines applies here (if it ends in a question mark it can be answered “no”).

Of course his final throw of the dice is guff about a British manager; again there have been multiple threads on here showing the statistical insignificance of British vs Foreigh managers promoted from the Champo. You get the feeling that the entire piece was building up to this.

To invoke Churchill (and I hope with enough brevity for Harty); “This is the sort of nonsense up with which we shall not put.”

Do you know what you're talking about?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Thank god there is at least one fighter left among Albion supporters and hasn't resorted to LICKING

http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/spo...n-and-paul-barber-s-programme-notes-1-6372302

So a return to the theatre of trees is the answer? And his comparison is some success in a lower division. I don't recall us tearing up the Championship at Withdean - League One maybe a couple of times but that is a whole degree lower in quality (and some).

Don't think so somehow.

3/10 - must try harder.

 

[Questions]

I think Sammi will be sacked a long time before he ever gets to pick the players that he actually wants. If he somehow manages to get something out of the mediocre bunch he has I dare say Burke will be showered with plaudits. To be honest I like the old way of recruiting players. That does not mean do away with a scouting network but that they answer to the manager and he talks to the chairman.

 

[Brovion]

What's stopping you watching Palace then if that's what you want? Or maybe you think we should vacate the Amex and groundshare at Selhurst!!!!

I think you've missed his point somewhat and consequently have gone off into a totally misplaced hyperbolic rant. He doesn't want to watch Palace, he doesn't want to groundshare at Selhurst, he's just saying that in his opinion what happens on the pitch is more important than the surroundings off it. He simply quoted Palace as an example, and judging from his other posts with regard to Palace that must have hurt him.

FWIW I agree with you about the 'Administration' thing. By rights Palace should be well down the pyramid - but that's another issue!

 

[Rookie]

Totally understand why people are cautious about the 'British manager please comment' - but the evidence shows that British managers are better at being promoted than 'Foreign' managers from this division.

Pretty good record at getting relegated as well ...

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Its quite well written, for sure, but mildly ironic, that after taking PB to task for the length of his notes, this whole article is basically 1000 words, to say what he could have said in eight; "The current football is not value for money".


The thing about the nationality of the coach just makes him look small minded. Its also a complete nonsense. We got out-thought and out-fought by a Boro team last week, managed by a Spanish coach with zero 'Championship experience'. There are plenty of other examples. But then Harty knew that, anyway.

Just over 700 words, and it only fits on "a single piece of A4 paper" if you cut it down to 10pt.

I've not read PB's feature in its entirety, but it strikes me Harty is sniping at the wrong guy. Barber isn't responsible for the football side of the business. His job is to get money into the club, which he seems to be doing. I understand that if the fans aren't there, then there will be less money, etc, etc, but surely he needs to single out Bloom and Burke for that?

Also, as you point out HKFC, the last guy in charge didn't have any championship experience, and he did ok...

 

[desprateseagull]

Ouch.

 

[perseus]

Bloom is the owner, it's his money and he needs to decide if he is happy to lose £1 million a month. Fans have to decide if they are happy to carry on forking out PL prices for tickets, beer and pies but get lower Championship level football. If the fans answer is no then ST sales will decline and that loss will increase. However if money is spent on better players and better results then perhaps fans will stay.

Bloom is a gambling man, I think he is gambling that fans will accept PL prices and poor football. I think he's wrong and the ST holders who are already staying away wont be renewing and some ST holders who are still attending will decide to pick and chose the matches they attend.

Poker is not gambling. Its mathematics (so people might call it arithmetic), psychology and bit of economics through in.

Just thinking about whether to put a bet on the Albion for this match. It looks a good chance. Only one bet this year so far. I bet for Stoke to beat Sunderland in the League Cup and that was closer than I expected. I thought it was dead cert. This one should be as well. Rotherham are an attacking aerial side that can't keep hold of the ball and can't pass either. Can I trust Sami to get the tactics right? The only worrying thing was Derby only beat Rotherham in the first match of the season 1-0 with a late goal. It should be like playing Wednesday when they first came up 3-0.

I wouldn't not have bet on Harty going for a change of Manager. It reminds me of Man United fans calling for the head of Ferguson.

I am firmly in the camp, of if we sack Hyypia we will get relegated for sure. Football suicide. It reads like unbalanced journalism suicide to me as well.

 

[vegster]

Harry refering to Churchill and " traditional British managers " ? Is he up for a job at the Daily Mail ?

 

[Stat Brother]

Totally understand why people are cautious about the 'British manager please comment' - but the evidence shows that British managers are better at being promoted than 'Foreign' managers from this division.

Just out of interest, how many foreign managers have managed for 1+ full seasons, at the same club, in this division, in say the last 10 years?
And obviously how many British managers does the same apply too?

Poyet
Garcia

 

[Rich Suvner]

Good article, but I get the feeling it will fall on deaf ears.

Ian Hart's words may indeed fall on deaf ears. But when that feeling is acted on next Spring by loads of people opting not to renew their season tickets it will be a message communicated loud and clear.

 

[chaileyjem]

Agree with EVERY word.

Stadium, facilities blah blah blah. Best in League one soon. Do what Palace dis invest on what runs around on the ****ing grass and gets results. .

In the year Palace were promoted they had the 12th biggest wage bill in the division. Albion had the 8th.

Both finished in the top 6.

 

[Medwayseagull]

He's spot on. He's old school like lot of us unlike most of these sad acts on here.

For old school read old farts.