Paul Barber: Why the Albion lose £1m a month

[Nitram]

FFP and parachute payments are clearly obstacles that need to be overcome. I don't understand the argument about throwing a load of cash to gamble on hitting the Premiership by finishing in the top two then pay the fines out of the riches that top tier football provides. The chances of this coming off would be slim and if did not succeed would leave a deep financial burden. You can only roll that dice once.
I think the club are going about it in the right way, it's easy telling other people what to do with their money, but I would rather have people who are looking at the long game than gambling short term on a long shot.

 

[El Presidente]

The initiative that got my attention was Warsaw's (I think)

A lower division team has, like us, very cheap season tickets for the juniors.
But what they do is give a couple of pounds cash back when the child is in attendance.
Usual that money still gets spent at the club.

Yup, it is Walsall, not Warsaw though!

They pay £46 for a ST, and get a £2 voucher to spend each match on food and other merchandise.

I think the Albion do a pretty good deal for kids though, for £75 (U-10) or /£125 (U-16) in the family stand they get the benefits of the travel voucher, plus a few goodies too over the season. Anyone who has taken their kids to a theme park or even cinema knows that those prices are reasonable. I'm not sure why they discriminate when kids get to 10 though, as the kids aren't earning at that age (unless you send them up chimneys to clean them) and it's a cost being borne solely by the parents.

 

[El Presidente]

There has to be a limit on gifts though. What's to stop the same person gifting the club 50m every season?

There isn't.

Provided that person isn't deemed to be a related party to the club owner then it is acceptable. The Euro Millions jackpot is £128 million tonight, if I win I would give £50 million to the club, with wanting nothing in return, I would then spend 6 months spending some of it on hookers and cocaine, and the rest I would squander.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think the Albion do a pretty good deal for kids though, for £75 (U-10) or /£125 (U-16) in the family stand. I'm not sure why they discriminate when kids get to 10 though, as the kids aren't earning at that age and it's a cost being borne solely by the parents.

There is a FAR bigger anomoly with the family stand pricing, if you have more than one child - once the older is 16, they are 'adults' in the FS - i.e. there is no U-18 price there (unlike almost every other part of the ground).

So in my case, this summer we were effectively forced out, even though my youngest was only 13, because to stay, I'd have had to pay the full £400ish for my 16 (his birthday was the first day of the season ) year old.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Why he doesn't just tell us that life is hard, live with it and get stuffed, I can't imagine.

 

[El Presidente]

There is a FAR bigger anomoly with the family stand pricing, if you have more than one child - once the older is 16, they are 'adults' in the FS - i.e. there is no U-18 price there (unlike almost every other part of the ground).

So in my case, this summer we were effectively forced out, even though my youngest was only 13, because to stay, I'd have had to pay the full £400ish for my 16 (his birthday was the first day of the season ) year old.

That seems ludicrous by the club, they should be more flexible on things such as this IMO (awaits thunder, lightning, clouds parting and a very large FINGER being pointed at me along with a voice not dissimilar from that of Brian Blessed, saying that I am DAMNED for eternity).

 

[halbpro]

Yup, it is Walsall, not Warsaw though!

They pay £46 for a ST, and get a £2 voucher to spend each match on food and other merchandise.

I think the Albion do a pretty good deal for kids though, for £75 (U-10) or /£125 (U-16) in the family stand they get the benefits of the travel voucher, plus a few goodies too over the season. Anyone who has taken their kids to a theme park or even cinema knows that those prices are reasonable. I'm not sure why they discriminate when kids get to 10 though, as the kids aren't earning at that age (unless you send them up chimneys to clean them) and it's a cost being borne solely by the parents.

£2 voucher is a great idea, primes the pump.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What do people think the club would be doing if FFP didn't exist? I would suggest similar to what they are now. The alternative is to spend more cash on players and roll the dice- one year (or more) in the Prem would deliver a huge financial return. But it's a gamble, and ironically, I don't think the owners are up for it.

So all this talk of FFP is really a smokescreen, it's easier than the club just admitting that they don't want to put the money in to take the gamble to push for a promotion which may not happen, no matter how much you spend. So rather than say 'We want to be sensible, and we don't want to spend the cash it would take to push for 1st/2nd place, and we have our fingers crossed we might hit sixth and do something in the playoffs', which would be honest, we get a load of babble about FFP and how the club are doing what they can within the confines of this regime.

The reality is, on paper, spending the cash, getting promoted, and paying any FFP fines due would still deliver a massive increase in income for the club and there is nothing to suggest they couldn't move on from that and either become a stable club in the Prem or Yo-Yo between the Prem and The Championship raking in parachute payments as they go. It's a viable strategy, it's got risks and those risks would need to be managed.

The current strategy is less risky but very unlikely to deliver Promotion.

Not so.

If we spent the cash and failed to get promotion, what then?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Has no one got an answer to my question about an investor wanted to put in £50 million and if they are supposedly allowed by FFP?

Try it and see.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

That seems ludicrous by the club, they should be more flexible on things such as this IMO (awaits thunder, lightning, clouds parting and a very large FINGER being pointed at me along with a voice not dissimilar from that of Brian Blessed, saying that I am DAMNED for eternity).

I did ask PB about it and whilst there was nothing to be done for us, he did agree that it was wrong, and that they would 'look at it'.

The stupid thing is of course, having moved to the NW so as to pay £230 (rather than £440?) for my 16 year old, my 13 year old is also now £230 (rather than the £125 he was still eligible for in the FS). Obviously the cheapest option would be to make my kids sit apart in different parts of the ground!

 

[glasfryn]

bottom line is we are one of the most expensive clubs in the country, and losing 1m a month, something is wrong somewhere, and it does seem that adhering to FFP does not make a jot of difference.
putting pressure on fans to stump up more is just going to alienate some and they the club will lose them, after working so hard to get them.

 

[BensGrandad]

Surely the answer is to make the items available in the shop and the concourses competively priced. I have not bought anything this season in the ground because I do not believe it represents value for money. Similarly my 5 year old granddaughter is going to the game tomorrow and I wanted to buy here a shirt with her name on it but her dad said it wasnt fair to buy her one and not her younger sister and brother, which I understand, but at £37 each I will not be buying 1 yet alone 3. Had they been £20 each I would have bought 3.

 

[KZNSeagull]

There isn't.

Provided that person isn't deemed to be a related party to the club owner then it is acceptable. The Euro Millions jackpot is £128 million tonight, if I win I would give £50 million to the club, with wanting nothing in return, I would then spend 6 months spending some of it on hookers and cocaine, and the rest I would squander.

So if you won the euromillions every year, you could give the club 50m every year?

Not that you could of course because you may well have succumbed to cocaine poisoning and sore knob syndrome in the first 6 months.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Regardless of all the above I strongly suspect that if the team were winning none of this debate would be taking place. It's pretty depressing that I can't recall the last discussion about Sammi Hyppia on NSC.

Another interesting thing in Soccernomics is that the stats say that defenders do not make very successful managers. Oh.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

For all the talk of FFP, the central issue remains: football is a uniquely ludicrous industry. With the vast bulk of their customers complicit masochists, by definition inaccessible to all competitors, the 'businesses' are content to pay ridiculous wages to laughably ordinary players and their revolting agents.

This absurdity reaches its zenith in the case of soccer role model and underwhelming megastar Wayne Rooney, who in another life would be delighted to receive £20,000 a year on a building site, instead of 15 times that in a single week.

With time running out, football needs urgently to grow a pair. And bring in a sensible and sustainable cap on wage levels in all the divisions. Until then, fans will continue to be treated by their clubs as a bunch of mugs, guaranteed to cough up week in, week out to fund the football industry's pathological lunacy.

 

[Knotty]

What do people think the club would be doing if FFP didn't exist? I would suggest similar to what they are now. The alternative is to spend more cash on players and roll the dice- one year (or more) in the Prem would deliver a huge financial return. But it's a gamble, and ironically, I don't think the owners are up for it.

So all this talk of FFP is really a smokescreen, it's easier than the club just admitting that they don't want to put the money in to take the gamble to push for a promotion which may not happen, no matter how much you spend. So rather than say 'We want to be sensible, and we don't want to spend the cash it would take to push for 1st/2nd place, and we have our fingers crossed we might hit sixth and do something in the playoffs', which would be honest, we get a load of babble about FFP and how the club are doing what they can within the confines of this regime.

The reality is, on paper, spending the cash, getting promoted, and paying any FFP fines due would still deliver a massive increase in income for the club and there is nothing to suggest they couldn't move on from that and either become a stable club in the Prem or Yo-Yo between the Prem and The Championship raking in parachute payments as they go. It's a viable strategy, it's got risks and those risks would need to be managed.

The current strategy is less risky but very unlikely to deliver Promotion.

Thank God you're not running the club!

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

Not so.

If we spent the cash and failed to get promotion, what then?

Well, assuming the cash has come from the owners, they swallow the loss, pay the FFP fines, and move on. That's the risk. It's risky. For the owners.

As I said above, the current strategy is less risky, but very unlikely to deliver promotion.

If that is the objective.

If those involved are happy to sit in the Championship then I think they are definitely doing the right thing, although it would probably be possible to do that without losing £1million a month.

As a strategy for promotion, selling decent players, buying not so good ones, and a regular turnover of managers, is, IMHO, unlikely to deliver promotion.

So, do you risk spending more, and stand a decent chance of promotion, or spend less, still lose £1million a month, and have very little chance of promotion? The club has gone for option 2.

 

[BensGrandad]

You have to balance the options;

1. Go for it spend money and hope for promotion and the pot of gold it brings.
2. Prudent spending to keep the club solvent but not diminishing ambition.

I believe we tried option 1 under Gus and it failed we are now engaged on option 2. I honestly believe that we will eventually reach the Premier based on player ability rather than big spending.

 

[El Presidente]

I did ask PB about it and whilst there was nothing to be done for us, he did agree that it was wrong, and that they would 'look at it'.

The stupid thing is of course, having moved to the NW so as to pay £230 (rather than £440?) for my 16 year old, my 13 year old is also now £230 (rather than the £125 he was still eligible for in the FS). Obviously the cheapest option would be to make my kids sit apart in different parts of the ground!

It's YOUR fault for not having twins

 

[El Presidente]

As I said above, the current strategy is less risky, but very unlikely to deliver promotion.

So how were Palace and Burnley promoted in the last two seasons?