Unchain The Brighton Motorist

[worthingseagull123]

Not just the Greens, lots of people would rather see less cars used across the world and less journeys taken. We are facing a Climate change crisis and changes need to be made to our carbon habits. Governments are voted in with a mandate to do something about carbon emission and to try and find more sustainable ways of going about our business. the expectation is there from the majority of people do do something and to make some changes. Many may not agree and they have every right not to but the majority want something done so the council/government etc are mandated to do something. Some will happily make changes and some will do it reluctantly but the change will happen because that is what the majority want.

Sorry can you provide any sort of evidence that the majority want change? Or have you just made this up?

 

[Garage_Doors]

The Greens have done nothing in terms of changing road transport policy in the city centre, nor have they closed any city centre roads,

Not true, Oxford St have been closed off to cars and made a bus route only.

 

[Garage_Doors]

36 million cars owned in the UK

That doesn't mean there arec36 million drivers.

 

[hybrid_x]

Where would the taxi rank be? So midnight a few hundred pissed up dudes would have to walk 1 mile to a taxi rank in the rain.

This is idealistic nonsense that will never happen.....unless trams or something similar came in.....which would cost a fortune and cause havoc when being built.

Car fines and parking fees are Brightons biggest revenue and business.

 

[sten_super]

In Cambridge the central shopping areas are closed off to cars. However there's a number of good park and ride systems, and there is on-street parking around the outskirts of the city starting around 1 mile from the city centre) available for those in the know, and there is a large multi-storey attached to the shopping centre which is prohibitively priced for long stays (it goes up from around £1.50 for one hour to £17 for more than four hours!). The system works pretty well, although there are inevitably always people in the local paper complaining about the 'anti-car agenda'. It certainty means that the centre is a friendly areas for shopping and certainly hasn't lead to the desolate empty streets that some in this thread seem to be forecasting for Brighton were a similar method to be introduced.

edit to add: and in response to [MENTION=20045]hybrid_x[/MENTION] 's point, there is a taxi rank near the centre and the pedestrianised roads are opened up for taxis only outside of peak hours. However they are talking about getting rid of that rank and moving to one that is further out of the city - not sure what the latest is on that front but I can't say that I think it's a particularly good idea.

 

[BadFish]

Sorry can you provide any sort of evidence that the majority want change? Or have you just made this up?

The Green Party hold the seat.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The Green Party hold the seat.

They hold one of three seats in the city and minority control of the council. They are in no way a majority in the city of Brighton and Hove and to suggest they are is disingenuous.

 

[BadFish]

They hold one of three seats in the city and minority control of the council. They are in no way a majority in the city of Brighton and Hove and to suggest they are is disingenuous.

Ask the other parties in Brighton and have have some kind of environmental policy. They do this because they understand that most people have environmental concerns. Therefore whoever are voted in have a mandate to act on their policies and tackle environmental issues.

Are you and Worthing seagull really suggesting that the majority do not have concerns about the environment?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Ask the other parties in Brighton and have have some kind of environmental policy. They do this because they understand that most people have environmental concerns. Therefore whoever are voted in have a mandate to act on their policies and tackle environmental issues.

Are you and Worthing seagull really suggesting that the majority do not have concerns about the environment?

Of course everyone has an environmental policy just as they have an education, law and order and healthcare policy. But all the policies are different. The majority of Brightonians do not agree with the Green Party's policies. I care about the environment, I cycle, use public transport when I can, eat less meat than I used to, recycle and pass these value on to my kids. That doesn't mean I believe a combination of Marxism, political correctness and puritanism is the right way to tackle the environment. And unless there's a coordinated global transport policy punishing Brighton motorists is just petty gesture politics.

 

[BadFish]

Of course everyone has an environmental policy just as they have an education, law and order and healthcare policy. But all the policies are different. The majority of Brightonians do not agree with the Green Party's policies. I care about the environment, I cycle, use public transport when I can, eat less meat than I used to, recycle and pass these value on to my kids. That doesn't mean I believe a combination of Marxism, political correctness and puritanism is the right way to tackle the environment. And unless there's a coordinated global transport policy punishing Brighton motorists is just petty gesture politics.

You say gesture politics, I say leading the way with forward thinking policies. Either way if governments have policies they are manifested to act on them. How that is done is of course a matter of debate and opinion.

 

[BadFish]

You say gesture politics, I say leading the way with forward thinking policies. Either way if governments have policies they are manifested to act on them. How that is done is of course a matter of debate and opinion.

You say they are declaring war on cars, I say they are mandated to (although I wouldn't use such dramatic language).

I really fancy a Guinness.

 

[The Large One]

It certainly feels that way to an outsider and from speaking to friends who still live there.

I think that there has been an almighty pre-judgement on what the Greens stood for and what they intended to do when they won the largest number of council seats. One of them was the nonsensical consideration of 'declaring war on cars' without finding out what they stood for. The truth is, whatever the phrase is supposed to mean, there has been no such declaration.

What has happened is that we have seen the continuation of the sustainable transport projects they inherited (new cycle lanes, new bus lanes, new parking zones etc.), and a consideration to making the streets safer for cyclists and pedestrians - it's an ongoing consideration, though it appears to some that that is tantamount to a 'declaration of war'.

I still live here, and it's no better or worse in terms of how motorists on the road are treated - and there have been no projects have been introduced that have stopped motorists from going where they could before - though there are those who feel discriminated against by being asked to slow down for a couple of miles. Considering how radical some might like them to have been, I think they've been quite conservative (with a small 'c') with their transport considerations.

The biggest problem Brighton has with cars is that there is a persistent traffic jam on hot days - it's a popular place to visit after all, and it's a traffic jam that has lasted around 30 years, I'd suggest.

 

[surrey jim]

Without having read all the posts here (and appologies if this has been posted already) Brighton lacks a good park and ride system. Why cant at the weekends when Brighton are not playing the Bennets field / Bridge car parks be used with a non stop bus service from there to say Old Steiene/Churchill square stops. Have a low pricing system for parking / the bus. People could also have a coffee / sandwich at the Stadium before / after.

Either that or a whole new carpark at somehwere like Waterhall (access for A23/27) with rapid bus through to city centre.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You say they are declaring war on cars, I say they are mandated to (although I wouldn't use such dramatic language).

I said they'd like to. I actually think that TLOs right in that they've held back some of their more extreme excesses but only for the sake of political expediency. I did say they are punishing motorists and, financially, they are. Ask your average Brighton cabbie what they think of Jason Kitcat.

 

[The Large One]

Of course everyone has an environmental policy just as they have an education, law and order and healthcare policy. But all the policies are different. The majority of Brightonians do not agree with the Green Party's policies. I care about the environment, I cycle, use public transport when I can, eat less meat than I used to, recycle and pass these value on to my kids. That doesn't mean I believe a combination of Marxism, political correctness and puritanism is the right way to tackle the environment. And unless there's a coordinated global transport policy punishing Brighton motorists is just petty gesture politics.

If that's your mantra, the majority of Brightonians do not agree with any party's policies, so that phrase is redundant.

'Punishing Brighton motorists'? Scary that people think along such puritanical lines.

If it's gesture politics you're after, how about seeing how many of these policies are reversed upon a different administration coming in? For all Labour's posturing and whining, they have no intention of reversing the transport policies. As for the Tories, they voted them through...

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Without having read all the posts here (and appologies if this has been posted already) Brighton lacks a good park and ride system. Why cant at the weekends when Brighton are not playing the Bennets field / Bridge car parks be used with a non stop bus service from there to say Old Steiene/Churchill square stops. Have a low pricing system for parking / the bus. People could also have a coffee / sandwich at the Stadium before / after.

Either that or a whole new carpark at somehwere like Waterhall (access for A23/27) with rapid bus through to city centre.

That is the key. Bruges has a great car park by the station and a shuttle bus service for just one euro into the centre. Bus fares are ridiculously high.

I could drive to work in 30 mins, using the car park (which is small, so works on a first come first served basis) but choose to get two buses which takes an hour on a good day.

 

[The Large One]

I said they'd like to. I actually think that TLOs right in that they've held back some of their more extreme excesses but only for the sake of political expediency. I did say they are punishing motorists and, financially, they are. Ask your average Brighton cabbie what they think of Jason Kitcat.

No, not for political expediency - for consideration of the city centre as a whole. They want to see a reduction of vehicles in the city centre and are trying to achieve it by encouraging people to walk, cycle or take the bus. You say that that's puritanical. I say it's reasonable.

You're applying a whole set of values to a group of people that don't have them.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I have not read the whole thread so apologies if fixtures, but I travel with work a lot, so what towns or cites in the UK encourage car use, I can't think of any, I am not sure this is just Brighton, however the shape and size of out town struggles to accommodate the residents cars yet alone the visitors and tourists that flock in.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

In Cambridge the central shopping areas are closed off to cars. However there's a number of good park and ride systems, and there is on-street parking around the outskirts of the city starting around 1 mile from the city centre) available for those in the know, and there is a large multi-storey attached to the shopping centre which is prohibitively priced for long stays (it goes up from around £1.50 for one hour to £17 for more than four hours!). The system works pretty well, although there are inevitably always people in the local paper complaining about the 'anti-car agenda'. It certainty means that the centre is a friendly areas for shopping and certainly hasn't lead to the desolate empty streets that some in this thread seem to be forecasting for Brighton were a similar method to be introduced.

And Bath. And York. And Southampton. And Oxford. And Liverpool. And Cardiff. And Edinburgh. And Glasgow.

Off the top of my head.

 

[Guinness Boy]

No, not for political expediency - for consideration of the city centre as a whole. They want to see a reduction of vehicles in the city centre and are trying to achieve it by encouraging people to walk, cycle or take the bus. You say that that's puritanical. I say it's reasonable.

You're applying a whole set of values to a group of people that don't have them.

I actually say they're using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. OF course it's a good idea to try to cut down on people doing a 400 yard school run in an SUV or driving five minutes to the shops. However here is a direct quote from their manifesto (my bolding):

We believe a fair balancemust be struck between the needs of pedestrians and cyclists, public transport users and motorists. It should be possible to redesign a city where everybody can get around easily without harming the well being of others.

I believe they are harming the well being of taxi drivers, small traders and certain city centre businesses.