[Albion] The Japanese imperial flag in the away end at OT

[edna krabappel]

Bit of a questionable move by whoever was waving it. Could cause a great deal of offence, and indeed has already been picked up on by some horrified Korean Twitter followers, amongst others (it's viewed in similar terms to a swastika in South Korea, and by many Chinese people).

Probably more sensitive to just take a normal Japanese flag, no?

 

[Giraffe]

Unfair to compare it to the Swastika. It’s still often used in Japan. Admittedly you’re right about Korea not liking it. But neither do the Chinese, so ups and downs.

Wiki
At present, the flag is flown by the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, and an eight-ray version is flown by the Japan Self-Defense Forces and the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force.[2] The rising sun design is also seen in numerous scenes in daily life in Japan, such as in fishermen's banners hoisted to signify large catches of fish, flags to celebrate childbirth, and in flags for seasonal festivities.[4]

The flag is controversial in Korea and China, where it is associated with Japanese militarismand imperialism.[5][6][7]

 

[edna krabappel]

Unfair to compare it to the Swastika. It’s still often used in Japan. Admittedly you’re right about Korea not liking it. But neither do the Chinese, so ups and downs.

Wiki
At present, the flag is flown by the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, and an eight-ray version is flown by the Japan Self-Defense Forces and the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force.[2] The rising sun design is also seen in numerous scenes in daily life in Japan, such as in fishermen's banners hoisted to signify large catches of fish, flags to celebrate childbirth, and in flags for seasonal festivities.[4]

The flag is controversial in Korea and China, where it is associated with Japanese militarismand imperialism.[5][6][7]

I'm not comparing it to the swastika. I'm just saying that many people do in other countries. And yes, it seems China doesn't like what it stands for either, but a few sources I've read suggest their government hasn't made a big deal of it in the same way the Seoul government has because they're trying to push trade links and diplomatic relations with Japan.

Me, I just think if it's something that's going to cause upset, then why wave it at a football match? It's not like there isn't another Japanese flag that could be used.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Bit of a questionable move by whoever was waving it. Could cause a great deal of offence, and indeed has already been picked up on by some horrified Korean Twitter followers, amongst others (it's viewed in similar terms to a swastika in South Korea, and by many Chinese people).

Probably more sensitive to just take a normal Japanese flag, no?

Or a Brighton one….

 

[Brightonfan1983]

I noticed those tweets too; an interesting dig around Google followed, and now I think a simple Japanese flag would be the correct replacement, shurely - no need to wave the imperial flag unless you're a bit of a troll?

Almost as offensive were the half and half scarves worn in the away end yesterday.

 

[edna krabappel]

Almost as offensive were the half and half scarves worn in the away end yesterday.

Plenty in the home end too, as seen on the (presumably) United fan who stood up to video Joao Pedro's goal celebrations, to much ridicule from a bunch of The Leeds United fans on Twitter.

 

[Jackthelad]

The Imperial flag is accepted by the Japanese people. It's on their clothes and everywhere. The Chinese flag is offensive to many nations because of their brutality yet we are ok with that?!. The Union Jack was called The Butcher's apron by Ireland and other nations. From what I've seen it's White liberals who get offended at this flag in UK not local Koreans.

 

[Questions]

Now I’ve read all that Im becoming offended.

 

[edna krabappel]

The Imperial flag is accepted by the Japanese people. It's on their clothes and everywhere. The Chinese flag is offensive to many nations because of their brutality yet we are ok with that?!. The Union Jack was called The Butcher's apron by Ireland and other nations. From what I've seen it's White liberals who get offended at this flag in UK not local Koreans.

Whether it's accepted by the Japanese or not is not really the issue here, is it?

I completely understand the "butcher's apron" thing: it's very commonly heard around Irish sporting events, and also Welsh and Scottish ones where England are concerned, but it's not specifically associated with war crimes in the same way the Japanese one is (colonialism, of course, and plenty of other things, but that's another argument for another day). The Confederate flag is a more appropriate analogy here, as somebody else has already suggested: it's an old bit of symbolism that is no longer deemed appropriate. The rising sun flag is not Japan's national flag and hasn't been for decades, even if it still appears around their nation in various non-nationalistic guises. The Japanese government ditched it decades ago, so why would anyone else persist?

All I'm saying here is: what's the point in waving it, when there's a perfectly acceptable alternative? I'm not suggesting an entire nation needs to change their flag. They already have done.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; international flags have no place at club football matches.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Chinese flag is offensive

whereas the Swiss flag is a big plus.

 

[A1X]

I’d imagine it’s not popular with British POWs either…

 

[BN9 BHA]

I'm not suggesting an entire nation needs to change their flag. They already have done.

We know

 

[portlock seagull]

I’d imagine it’s not popular with British POWs either…

So offending, what 2 or 3 remaining at most if that? Assuming they watch MoTD and don’t have dementia

 

[cunning fergus]

I’d imagine it’s not popular with British POWs either…

True, especially if the flag in question was being waved by one of the members our “new” pro Mitoma cohort of BHA fans.

 

[Giraffe]

If you waved it in Korea or China then yes I’m sure it would be offensive. It was waved in England. The Japanese like it. I assume it was waved for Mitoma. I expect he liked it. Surely that’s the point?

 

[Sheebo]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; international flags have no place at club football matches.

Only England ones, obvs.

 

[Bozza]

I had no idea what the Japanese Imperial Flag was before reading this thread and opening another browser tab and searching.

I'd probably have described it as "that Japanese rising sun thing".

I would hazard a guess that the Albion fans who had this flag may have thought of it in a similar way, and had no idea of the negative connotations of it. That's not to say that makes it OK, but I'd not be too damning on those who had it, who very possibly thought they were just looking to show Mitoma some love.

 

[edna krabappel]

I had no idea what the Japanese Imperial Flag was before reading this thread and opening another browser tab and searching.

I'd probably have described it as "that Japanese rising sun thing".

I would hazard a guess that the Albion fans who had this flag may have thought of it in a similar way, and had no idea of the negative connotations of it. That's not to say that makes it OK, but I'd not be too damning on those who had it, who very possibly thought they were just looking to show Mitoma some love.

Well yes, I agree: I'd like to think it was just a bunch of (English) Albion fans with no thought of what it might mean to anybody else, trying to support Mitoma. I'm merely raising the point that the flag in question is an issue for various people around the world, which these guys may well be mortified to learn.

All I'm saying is, maybe it would be wiser to use the actual Japanese flag next time, not the old one. It's not that hard, is it? They sell them in the club shop.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

Only England ones, obvs.

England match = England flag

Brighton and Hove Albion match = Brighton and Hove Albion flag