[Cricket] Yorkshire cricket.end off

[Eeyore]

Aussie broadcaster still backing him, so he may very well do a Tony Grieg and end up other there permanently.

Remember old Tony?, he told Harry Carpenter on Sportsnight in 1976 he was going to make 11 black men grovel ��

Times have changed at the BBC clearly, they get banned from showing Carol Concerts now.

It was an innocent comment at the time in reference to his mistaken belief that England could beat them. 'I'm not sure they are as good as everyone thinks they are, if they are down they grovel... and I intend to make them grovel'. Of course, the concept of grovelling was not understood in its historical context by Grieg.

 

[vegster]

Aussie broadcaster still backing him, so he may very well do a Tony Grieg and end up other there permanently.

Remember old Tony?, he told Harry Carpenter on Sportsnight in 1976 he was going to make 11 black men grovel ��

Times have changed at the BBC clearly, they get banned from showing Carol Concerts now.

For reference, Greig said he wanted the West Indies team to grovel, not "11 black men." And Interestingly enough ( Motty voice ) I heard a marvellous interview with Michael Holding who said he was upset by Greig's comments at the time and that the West Indies team used his comments to motivate the team to victory. He added that he got to know Tony Greig and his family very well over the years and said that categorically he was NOT a racist, and believes that at the time, Greig used the word "Grovel " in the wrong context.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Azeem Rafiq accused of anti-Semitism, homophobia and fat-shaming kids

SPECIAL REPORT BY MATT HUGHES: Azeem Rafiq is accused of using abusive anti-Semitic and homophobic language during his playing career and 'fat-shaming' children in a training session.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Second Innings?

 

[Beanstalk]

Azeem Rafiq accused of anti-Semitism, homophobia and fat-shaming kids

SPECIAL REPORT BY MATT HUGHES: Azeem Rafiq is accused of using abusive anti-Semitic and homophobic language during his playing career and 'fat-shaming' children in a training session.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Second Innings?

None of that excuses the racist (both personal and systematic) behaviour towards Azeem Rafiq. This isn't a tit for tat battle - victims of abuse don't have to be squeaky clean themselves to have been wronged.

 

[Lenny Rider]

None of that excuses the racist (both personal and systematic) behaviour towards Azeem Rafiq. This isn't a tit for tat battle - victims of abuse don't have to be squeaky clean themselves to have been wronged.

But does it highlight that Rafiq is a marmite figure and perhaps that the public haven’t heard the full story? I’ve spoken in the last 12 months to two local ex England Test cricketers and PCA members who both recounted a different version of the original events which didn’t quite fit the Rafiq narrative.

 

[Beanstalk]

But does it highlight that Rafiq is a marmite figure and perhaps that the public haven’t heard the full story? I’ve spoken in the last 12 months to two local ex England Test cricketers and PCA members who both recounted a different version of the original events which didn’t quite fit the Rafiq narrative.

No because one thing doesn't negate the other. It has been found by an independent reviewer that Rafiq was racially abused whilst at Yorkshire and his concerns were not taken seriously by the organisation.

If Rafiq is accused of other wrongdoings, that doesn't change the fact that he suffered racist abuse (systematically and personally) whilst at Yorkshire. Those things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It's very very easy to understand.

 

[Easy 10]

No because one thing doesn't negate the other. It has been found by an independent reviewer that Rafiq was racially abused whilst at Yorkshire and his concerns were not taken seriously by the organisation.

If Rafiq is accused of other wrongdoings, that doesn't change the fact that he suffered racist abuse (systematically and personally) whilst at Yorkshire. Those things have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It's very very easy to understand.

But is does somewhat undermine his case when he has (allegedly) been guilty of exactly the same offences which he has accused other people of.

People have lost their jobs over this. Some quite rightly, but 10 of the 16 people who were arbitrarily sacked by YCCC in their ham-fisted attempt to sweep this all away, have successfully sued them for unfair dismissal.

Racist abuse is abhorrent and needs to be called out at all levels. If Rafiq is also facing allegations of this nature, then they need to be scrutinised at the same level he brought about for the people he accused.

 

[Beanstalk]

But is does somewhat undermine his case when he has (allegedly) been guilty of exactly the same offences which he has accused other people of.

People have lost their jobs over this. Some quite rightly, but 10 of the 16 people who were arbitrarily sacked by YCCC in their ham-fisted attempt to sweep this all away, have successfully sued them for unfair dismissal.

Racist abuse is abhorrent and needs to be called out at all levels. If Rafiq is also facing allegations of this nature, then they need to be scrutinised at the same level he brought about for the people he accused.

No, it doesn't undermine his case at all. It makes him look like a bit of a twat if the allegations are true but doesn't mean that the seriousness of the racial abuse he suffered is lessened.

Racism is bad. Antisemitism is bad. Homophobia is bad. If someone is a homophobic antisemite, racially abusing them does not then become a socially acceptable action. It's really simple!

The wrongdoings are separate incidents and should be treated as such. Doesn't undermine anything at all!

 

[Easy 10]

No, it doesn't undermine his case at all. It makes him look like a bit of a twat if the allegations are true but doesn't mean that the seriousness of the racial abuse he suffered is lessened.

Racism is bad. Antisemitism is bad. Homophobia is bad. If someone is a homophobic antisemite, racially abusing them does not then become a socially acceptable action. It's really simple!

The wrongdoings are separate incidents and should be treated as such. Doesn't undermine anything at all!

It makes him look like more than a twat.

It makes him look like a total hypocrite.

 

[Beanstalk]

It makes him look like more than a twat.

It makes him look like a total hypocrite.

Genuinely, why does it make him look like a hypocrite?

Are you saying that he's wrong to have reported discrimination in his workplace because he had previously discriminated?

That's not how the world works. You are taught from a very very early age that two wrongs don't make a right. It is proven he was discriminated against, that is bad. If he also discriminated, that is also bad. Those things are both bad, they don't cancel each other out.

 

[Easy 10]

Genuinely, why does it make him look like a hypocrite?

Are you saying that he's wrong to have reported discrimination in his workplace because he had previously discriminated?

That's not how the world works. You are taught from a very very early age that two wrongs don't make a right. It is proven he was discriminated against, that is bad. If he also discriminated, that is also bad. Those things are both bad, they don't cancel each other out.

I'm not saying he was wrong to report it at all, But I don't really need to define the word hypocrite, do I.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Worth a bounce.

Stokes 'deeply sorry' to hear of discrimination

England captain Ben Stokes said he is "deeply sorry" to hear about experiences of discrimination in a report into cricket in England and Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Cornwallboy]

Worth a bounce.

Stokes 'deeply sorry' to hear of discrimination

England captain Ben Stokes said he is "deeply sorry" to hear about experiences of discrimination in a report into cricket in England and Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk

What it means is if you are white male you've little chance of securing a role within the ECB and that from now on recruitment will be done on the basis of 'diversity and inclusion' rather than getting the right person for the role.

Equal pay for Women's cricketers? How about implementing this idea once they generate equal revenues. I imagine the men's first test generated considerably more than the women's

 

[Beanstalk]

What it means is if you are white male you've little chance of securing a role within the ECB and that from now on recruitment will be done on the basis of 'diversity and inclusion' rather than getting the right person for the role.

What are you talking about? 80% of the ECB workforce are white and 65% are male. 95% of the leadership team is white and 60% are male.

There is just no logical conclusion where you'd think a white male wouldn't get a job in an organisation like that because of their skin colour/gender. What you would hope is that the organisation is aware of its overwhelming biases towards white males and tried to put those biases aside when recruiting for new roles, regardless of who the candidate is. Improving diversity and inclusion means you are employing the right people for the right role, rather than employing them because of the biases of the hiring manager...

 

[Eeyore]

Having played, watched and been involved in the game for 41 years I have read this statement in the BBC

'Among other things, it said "structural and institutional racism" continues to exist within the game, women are treated as "subordinate" to men at all levels of the sport and there is a prevalence of "elitism and class-based discrimination" in cricket'

This is sweeping bollocks. Whilst racism and discrimination no doubt exists in places, I find this deeply offensive to the many who have worked hard to encourage development of the games across many sectors.

On a personal level. for as long as I have left, I will always speak out against all forms of prejudice in the game. I was a youngster who was an outsider at a club in Sussex because he went to a secondary school on a council estate. It put me off pushing to play at a higher level. So I know what it's like. Today it's a world apart. And folk in here will see how happy I am to see the women's game expanding in the way it is. But, of course, it's a work in process.

But to start producing reports which headline cricket as being rotten to the core is personal for those of us who are even on the periphery now.

 

[Cornwallboy]

What are you talking about? 80% of the ECB workforce are white and 65% are male. 95% of the leadership team is white and 60% are male.

There is just no logical conclusion where you'd think a white male wouldn't get a job in an organisation like that because of their skin colour/gender. What you would hope is that the organisation is aware of its overwhelming biases towards white males and tried to put those biases aside when recruiting for new roles, regardless of who the candidate is. Improving diversity and inclusion means you are employing the right people for the right role, rather than employing them because of the biases of the hiring manager...

Sorry I wasn't very clear in the first sentence I wrote. I should've put 'following this report if you are a white male etc.'

There is a logical conclusion to thinking white males won't get jobs anymore in the ECB, as they are now under massive pressure to be seen as embracing diversity and inclusion.

How do you there is 'overwhelming bias towards white males? Maybe shock horror they were simply the best candidates for the roles advertised? It does happen and as painful as it might be sometimes the white male is the best candidate the same way as a BAME female is.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What it means is if you are white male you've little chance of securing a role within the ECB and that from now on recruitment will be done on the basis of 'diversity and inclusion' rather than getting the right person for the role.

Equal pay for Women's cricketers? How about implementing this idea once they generate equal revenues. I imagine the men's first test generated considerably more than the women's

Er, no. This was about using a Muslim prayer mat to 'wipe up' after sex, and using the 'N' word, among other things. A bit too soon for your white male entitlement to kick in?

 

[Bakero]

Sorry I wasn't very clear in the first sentence I wrote. I should've put 'following this report if you are a white male etc.'

There is a logical conclusion to thinking white males won't get jobs anymore in the ECB, as they are now under massive pressure to be seen as embracing diversity and inclusion.

How do you there is 'overwhelming bias towards white males? Maybe shock horror they were simply the best candidates for the roles advertised? It does happen and as painful as it might be sometimes the white male is the best candidate the same way as a BAME female is.

What do you suggest? Ignore all the report's findings and maintain the status quo?

 

[Cornwallboy]

Er, no. This was about using a Muslim prayer mat to 'wipe up' after sex, and using the 'N' word, among other things. A bit too soon for your white male entitlement to kick in?

What makes you think I've got 'white entitlement?' How do you know I'm white?

 

[Cornwallboy]

What do you suggest? Ignore all the report's findings and maintain the status quo?

I suggest recruit on ability not on quotas.