Would You Be In Favour Of Mandatory Mask Wearing Again?

[Rugrat]

We're still mandated to wear masks whenever we enter any public indoor space here in Ontario. I don't particularly like wearing a mask but I'm so used to it now I don't really give it much thought. You don't see too many people wearing them outdoors on the street, although big sporting venues do try and mandate wearing them in stadiums.

Our vaccine numbers have been really high and case numbers started going up in September but have come right back down again (c. 400 cases a day in Ontario out of 15 million people). It's interesting that there hasn't really been much call for ditching mask wearing, people have just accepted it is a very minor inconvenience to help keep numbers down. The priority has been trying to get things open again and if mask wearing helps that then so be it.

We also require vaccine passports to get into restaurants, bars (indoors), sporting events, concerts, cinemas etc. which is great and has also helped keep the vaccine numbers going up. That's another debate though.

I'm going to be in the UK in a couple of weeks and I'm interested to see what the mask wearing is like.

All very sensible (what you're doing) and shouldn't cause anyone anyone any hardship.

As for mask wearing here fairly limited to negligble. I'd say 30%-40% in shops. On jam packed train Cambridge-Norwich at weekend I didn't see any

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

It was mandatory in shops from 24 July 2020.

Some smaller shops enforced it leading to violent attacks.

Waitrose Hove employed a couple of outside 'the real deal' security blokes, it did the trick, 100% mask wearing from what I saw.

Others including the big chains simply couldn't be arsed. When challenged by the media they simply said they weren't prepared to put the safety of staff at risk.


Genuine question, how do we crack this one?


UK wide btw, Wales, Scotland and NI set their own Covid rules. If aggressive Brits won't wear a mask and are prepared for a scuffle or verbal tirade, what's the solution?

The law in England changed on 19 July 2021 didn't it?

"From 19 July 2021, there is no longer a legal requirement to wear face coverings in indoor settings or on public transport.
Lifting restrictions does not mean the risks from COVID-19 have disappeared, but at this new phase of the pandemic response we are moving to an approach that enables personal risk-based judgments.
While no situation is risk free, there are actions we can take to protect ourselves and others around us.
We expect and recommend that members of the public continue to wear face coverings in crowded and enclosed spaces where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet. For example, on public transport.
You should use your judgement in deciding where you should wear one. Businesses, including transport operators, can also ask their employees and customers to wear face coverings. You should check with operators of services, venues, and settings that you use."

That is from the cabinet office of the Dept. of Health. I mainly saw conforming to mask wearing in shops pre-July 19th, since the above it's rapidly reduced and unsurprising given the self congratulatory back slapping on a job well done the Government seems to have been giving itself since. As said above, it's all about acceptable conformity, people generally don't like to be seen not to be doing something the rest aren't doing.

 

[crodonilson]

It's way too early for any kind of restrictions. We are in a good place at the moment. The press conference will be to do with the booster jab rollout.

Mask wearing will become mandatory at some point though, I'm certain of that, but it will be in the winter months when the NHS is at risk again.

I'm sorry but with nearly 50,000 daily cases and 8,000 in hospital and barely halfway through October I can't agree that we are in a good place. I think many NHS healthcare professionals would also disagree with you. Also wouldn't it be better to reimplement some baseline measures that may prevent us from getting to a bad place than waiting till we get to that 'bad' place before implementing them?

 

[Weststander]

The law in England changed on 19 July 2021 didn't it?

"From 19 July 2021, there is no longer a legal requirement to wear face coverings in indoor settings or on public transport.
Lifting restrictions does not mean the risks from COVID-19 have disappeared, but at this new phase of the pandemic response we are moving to an approach that enables personal risk-based judgments.
While no situation is risk free, there are actions we can take to protect ourselves and others around us.
We expect and recommend that members of the public continue to wear face coverings in crowded and enclosed spaces where you come into contact with people you don’t normally meet. For example, on public transport.
You should use your judgement in deciding where you should wear one. Businesses, including transport operators, can also ask their employees and customers to wear face coverings. You should check with operators of services, venues, and settings that you use."

That is from the cabinet office of the Dept. of Health. I mainly saw conforming to mask wearing in shops pre-July 19th, since the above it's rapidly reduced and unsurprising given the self congratulatory back slapping on a job well done the Government seems to have been giving itself since. As said above, it's all about acceptable conformity, people generally don't like to be seen not to be doing something the rest aren't doing.

I'd discussed in detail in the past tense Wave 2 when there was blatant mask ignoring (when it was mandatory) by thugs, the arrogant and chancers playing Superman.

You've commented on my comments about that period, when mask wearing was mandatory.

Respectfully, what should we, shop owners, the police and the state have done about that flagrant disregard? Important, because it shows the psyche of a large chunk our fellow citizens.

I already knew that a year later the law was repealed.


Personally, I like the batons approach of the Italian, Spanish and French police. But that would go down like a lead balloon in this country, calls of police brutality, Chiefs of Police to resign. We're both libertarian and a soft touch for scummers.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I struggle with your idea of a good place. 800 people are dying every week which is the equivalent of a major train crash.

To put that in context, there's 60,000,000 in the country and 10,000 of them die every week at this time of year for various reasons.

I've just looked at the ONS excess mortality charts and this year doesn't look unusual compared to pre-covid. It's actually better than 2017 but nobody was losing their sh*t about covid back then, so it wasn't mentioned.

 

[Weststander]

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I'd discussed in detail in the past tense Wave 2 when there was blatant mask ignoring (when it was mandatory) by thugs, the arrogant and chancers playing Superman.

You've commented on my comments about that period, when mask wearing was mandatory.

Respectfully, what should we, shop owners, the police and the state have done about that flagrant disregard? Important, because it shows the psyche of a large chunk our fellow citizens.

I already knew that a year later the law was repealed.


Personally, I like the batons approach of the Italian, Spanish and French police. But that would go down like a lead balloon in this country, calls of police brutality, Chiefs of Police to resign. We're both libertarian and a soft touch for scummers.

Apologies, didn't see that, thought the general discussion was present tense. Personally when it was mandatory, my experience was the majority were wearing masks. I mean, it's illegal to use your mobile phone while driving, but every single day walking the dog I see loads doing it, so I wasn't expecting to see everyone in a mask, but in shops and on trains I found most were.

I mean, driving using a phone is illegal and dangerous, but it still happens. So on the 19 July mandating that it is no-longer necessary to wear a mask turned a minority of non-conformists into the conformers. You're never going to catch everyone.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Yes. Why is it not mandatory already?! It's bizarre, we all know it will be within the next month or so anyway when the twats in charge realise they've ****ed up AGAIN and have to try and rescue the situation when it's already too late.

I don't know why I am but I astonished the government STILL haven't learnt their lesson about acting too late previously. A few little tweaks to our 'freedoms' now could help to prevent what currently, viewing the numbers, looks like an obvious lock down in the winter. I detest this bunch of useless charlatans.

 

[1066familyman]

I haven't read the whole thread. But has anyone mentioned the following three words yet?...

Head
Brick
Wall.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Don't you think having high cases now reduces the chance of a lockdown this winter. The more cases now, the fewer there will be down the line.

I suspect the government and their advisors knows this, but for obvious reasons can't declare it.

I hope you're right.

It's just such a dramatic increase in numbers recently and past experience does not fill me with any confidence that they're doing the right thing in holding off bringing back some restrictions.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Don't you think having high cases now reduces the chance of a lockdown this winter. The more cases now, the fewer there will be down the line.

I suspect the government and their advisors knows this, but for obvious reasons can't declare it.

I suppose the 179 dead today and 223 dead yesterday can’t get it again…..

 

[crabface]

Shouldnt this thread be in the Covid sub forum?

I come to the site for a break from all the covid talk.

 

[Weststander]

Apologies, didn't see that, thought the general discussion was present tense. Personally when it was mandatory, my experience was the majority were wearing masks. I mean, it's illegal to use your mobile phone while driving, but every single day walking the dog I see loads doing it, so I wasn't expecting to see everyone in a mask, but in shops and on trains I found most were.

I mean, driving using a phone is illegal and dangerous, but it still happens. So on the 19 July mandating that it is no-longer necessary to wear a mask turned a minority of non-conformists into the conformers. You're never going to catch everyone.

I envy the hard tactics of those continental countries and wouldn't condemn our police for getting involved and doing that.

My french neighbour said her countrymen/women are inherently beligerent and obstinate when it comes to the state pushing them around. Explaining the low vaccines uptake for month after month.

Which historically the state then confronts with its own aggression and stick, and tough laws eg no nightclub entry without a Pass Sanitaire. Only then do the obstinate comply.

But my instinct is that I'm the minority. Brits would go mad at tough policing.

 

[Simster]

I can't work out who is the sadder act. The Karen who thinks it's ok to break the law because she's "an old lady" or the rozzer who seems all too keen to get his hand cuffs out rather than trying to escort her from the premises first.

 

[A1X]

Don't you think having high cases now reduces the chance of a lockdown this winter. The more cases now, the fewer there will be down the line.

I suspect the government and their advisors knows this, but for obvious reasons can't declare it.

Then they're cowards. There are 179 families today, and 223 yesterday, and who knows how many tomorrow, who deserve an explanation. That their loved ones haven't been basically sacrificed needlessly by the Government because it's too politically difficult to persuade selfish people to put masks on or get a vaccine.

 

[Luke93]

Throughout the Covid disaster our government have shown nothing but incompetence. Misinformation was allowed to spread. Government rules and advice was often contradictory and lines were often blurred between the two. Coupled with changes to policy at a whim and with the general public having instant access to information themselves on how other countries tackled the pandemic. I think we will sadly never get unity on mask wearing ever again. During the lockdowns there were constant rule breakers in my local area and I could never distinguish the difference between a **** or a confused follower over government guidelines. Even if mask wearing is made compulsory tomorrow or planned for next month, I can see many people just outright ignoring that rule. Especially as the vaccine program has given people empowered confidence they’re a Covid superman.

However, Covid cases rising again was inevitable and this should come as a shock to no one. Is this not the point of the vaccination program though? Living with Covid long term alongside existing transmissible viruses but with the protection vaccines provide against Covid. The likelihood of becoming seriously ill and ultimately dying have been significantly reduced as evidence suggests. Are we suggesting mask wearing should remain indefinitely as Covid exists? Or is the government to fluctuate on making mask wearing compulsory the instant cases rise above X number? I’m not against mask wearing and will continue to use mine, but I can’t see any solution here that will work long term as it will require everyone to play ball.

I went to raise another concern too. An unfortunate implication from the previous lockdowns has increased the likelihood of our immune systems weakening.

 

[seagull 1979]

Yes. I haven't stopped wearing one

 

[Seaview Seagull]

The world is further behind than we are. What we are experiencing now is normality. 100-200 deaths per day from covid for the rest of time will be low/normal, similar to flu.

Which part of the world are you looking at?We now have much higher case numbers than most of Europe (France Spain etc. ) Is it just coincidence that those countries have stringent mask rules?

 

[A1X]

I struggle with your idea of a good place. 800 people are dying every week which is the equivalent of a major train crash.

It's worse than that, the highest death toll in a peacetime rail crash in the UK is 112 at Harrow in 1952, it's more like one of those every day.

800 per week is roughly the equivalent of 2 fully laden 747s crashing every week. If that happened I think someone might be asking some pretty serious questions about the safety of air travel, not going "well they tested the planes and they were fine so we should ignore it and just learn to live with all these planes dropping out of the sky".

 

[Brighton & Love]

Which part of the world are you looking at?We now have much higher case numbers than most of Europe (France Spain etc. ) Is it just coincidence that those countries have stringent mask rules?

Have you been reading what's been happening in places like Waterford recently? I don't think it works like that.